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Brake Job and some Redesign
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LCAC_Man
Posted 2019-09-23 8:06 AM (#6883)
Subject: Brake Job and some Redesign


Elite Veteran

500100100252525
Location: Oceanside, CA
I'm going to start on a brake job this coming weekend, primarily I'll be installing the new drums and getting the shoes relined, of course any damaged parts will be replaced as well (just noticed a rear wheel cylinder leak started this past week so timing is good). Also during this I'm going to be installing a second Hydroboost/master cylinder dedicated to the rear brakes only. Since putting this inline with my existing power steering pump/system would lead to an over taxed pump and some flow complexities I'm going to install an electric powersteering pump system from a Volvo (actually a ford part). This will improve redundancy of the brake system and allow me to leave my existing forward system (that works well) alone. In both cases I'll tee the master cylinder outputs together so that(in the case of the forward MC) both the front and rear ports will feed both the drivers and passengers brakes.
By having a large dual port MC feed just front or rear my fluid volume will increase and that will both reduce pedal input needed and allow for higher application force in some cases.
This system will also be suited to large calipers if I ever make the move to disc brakes.
I'll start a photo album this coming weekend and report on progress.
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dkarnath
Posted 2019-09-23 9:10 AM (#6884 - in reply to #6883)
Subject: Re: Brake Job and some Redesign


Extreme Veteran

5002525
Location: Medford, OR
Oh? Apparently 1027 needs brake work? You selling it now? lol
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LCAC_Man
Posted 2019-09-23 11:03 AM (#6887 - in reply to #6883)
Subject: Re: Brake Job and some Redesign


Elite Veteran

500100100252525
Location: Oceanside, CA
I told you I could arrange something!
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LCAC_Man
Posted 2019-09-28 9:40 AM (#6909 - in reply to #6883)
Subject: Re: Brake Job and some Redesign


Elite Veteran

500100100252525
Location: Oceanside, CA
Got a start yesterday:
http://www.fmcowners.com/mbbs22/photos/photo-thumbnails.asp?albumid...
This passenger rear position has a leaky lower wheel cylinder so I decided to start here and contain the leak. I'll get the rest off and get the shoes out for relining over the next few days. I ordered 4 new wheel cylinders, if no signs of others leaking I'll probably just replace the lowers as that's were any moisture would settle.
Springs and adjusters on this first one also look newer so we'll see if that carries on the other three..
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andy1canada
Posted 2019-09-28 11:10 AM (#6910 - in reply to #6883)
Subject: Re: Brake Job and some Redesign


Extreme Veteran

500
Location: Victoria, BC. Canada
Thanks Len! Good stuff. Do you have a caliper etc to measure your drum(s) ID ? IIRC it's 12" min (?) Maybe someone could confirm.

Terry
#846
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LCAC_Man
Posted 2019-09-28 3:57 PM (#6911 - in reply to #6910)
Subject: Re: Brake Job and some Redesign


Elite Veteran

500100100252525
Location: Oceanside, CA
14.25" is cast on them as a minimum. I do have id micrometers and I'll will eventually get to it but since I have brand new drums it's lower on the list.
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andy1canada
Posted 2019-09-28 4:00 PM (#6912 - in reply to #6883)
Subject: RE: Brake Job and some Redesign


Extreme Veteran

500
Location: Victoria, BC. Canada
Good stuff! Thanks.

Terry
#846
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LCAC_Man
Posted 2019-09-28 4:16 PM (#6913 - in reply to #6912)
Subject: Re: Brake Job and some Redesign


Elite Veteran

500100100252525
Location: Oceanside, CA
pulled the front off, looks like brand new shoes/springs were done just before I bought it (had a receipt that said that but so much of the previous work was done by RVS that I discount all of it). Posted measurements for the fronts as well in the album.
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LCAC_Man
Posted 2019-09-28 6:28 PM (#6917 - in reply to #6913)
Subject: Re: Brake Job and some Redesign


Elite Veteran

500100100252525
Location: Oceanside, CA
added some pictures of the mockup position for the rear brake system and electric power steering pump
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LCAC_Man
Posted 2019-10-05 1:49 PM (#6921 - in reply to #6917)
Subject: Re: Brake Job and some Redesign


Elite Veteran

500100100252525
Location: Oceanside, CA
reinstalling the front shoes, should the (center) shoe retaining nut be taken down so that the backside center of the shoe just touches the back plate? is there a desired gap between the shoe and backplate? It would seem to make sense for it to just make contact on that center wear point since it does on the ends close to the wheel cylinders..
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LCAC_Man
Posted 2019-10-05 1:54 PM (#6922 - in reply to #6883)
Subject: Re: Brake Job and some Redesign


Elite Veteran

500100100252525
Location: Oceanside, CA
okay...when in doubt read the service manual, they say to install the shoe, then adjust the nut so that there is .015" clearance from the washer to the shoe. The problem I see with this is that the nut is going to be a lot farther down on the stud and the cotter pin wont be doing much of anything. maybe a thicker washer or stacking washers to solve this??
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dkarnath
Posted 2019-10-05 1:57 PM (#6923 - in reply to #6883)
Subject: Re: Brake Job and some Redesign


Extreme Veteran

5002525
Location: Medford, OR
Yes. I snug it, then back off just a touch. So the washer isn’t going to drag.
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LCAC_Man
Posted 2019-10-05 6:43 PM (#6926 - in reply to #6883)
Subject: Re: Brake Job and some Redesign


Elite Veteran

500100100252525
Location: Oceanside, CA
Had to add a thick washer on top of the original and set it to .015". On the down side the forward wheel cylinders that looked to be very new-ish were leaking as well, I popped the dust boots off of them and both were full of fluid...I'm just going to get rebuild kits for these as I hit them with the brake cylinder hone and they polished right up. I did notice that some of my wheel cylinders had aluminum piston slugs and some had stainless. The 4 new WC37150's I bought have stainless. Got the passenger front buttoned up and actually got around to installing the hub caps I bought a couple years ago. They have to be trimmed down a bit so they don't hit the but they look pretty good.. http://www.fmcowners.com/mbbs22/photos/show-album.asp?albumid=202&p...
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LCAC_Man
Posted 2019-10-11 5:14 PM (#6951 - in reply to #6883)
Subject: Re: Brake Job and some Redesign


Elite Veteran

500100100252525
Location: Oceanside, CA
Had some trouble with the first place I dropped off my shoes for relining, had a week delay but now have half of them back (they only had enough to do two pairs). Also got a couple of the wheel cylinders rebuilt using the dorman kits, I'm going to use new cylinders for the front brakes and rebuilds for the rear. Added some pics with part numbers, and have verified that the Raybestos WC37150 is in fact a good match.
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LCAC_Man
Posted 2019-10-21 7:05 AM (#6980 - in reply to #6883)
Subject: Re: Brake Job and some Redesign


Elite Veteran

500100100252525
Location: Oceanside, CA
Mounting brackets fabricated for the remote hydroboost, reservoir, and electric power steering pump, all these items are now hard mounted and I'll get rolling on plumbing/wiring them up. The donor for the electric power steering pump is 2004-2012 Volvo S40/V50's, there are other ford products as well but I didn't dig into just how deep the donor pool was. These are simple devices to run, they only require battery power (80amp service) and a ignition switched 12v to turn them on. This will be very low duty for this pump as it is designed to support a steering rack for a full sized vehicle, in comparison the hydroboost requires only a fraction of it's capacity (you could run two hydroboost easily).
I added some more pics to the album.

Edited by LCAC_Man 2019-10-21 7:05 AM
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andy1canada
Posted 2019-10-21 9:16 AM (#6981 - in reply to #6883)
Subject: RE: Brake Job and some Redesign


Extreme Veteran

500
Location: Victoria, BC. Canada
You show is one industrious mo-fo Lenny!

Rewriting the entire book of FMC Construct you is!

Great work for all of us to admire.

Question: I just now had a chance to go over your pics of the drum/hub work etc and the one with the added grease zerk on the rear drum/hub outer cap caught my eye. Looking at the cross section diagram in the parts manual showing the rear spindle and the three bearings thereon, it appears that if grease will make it to the outermost bearing then it should also make it to the next center bearing as well. But I don't think it would flow to the inboard bearing, right? Am I missing something here? If a guy could figure how to get a zerk in the trailing arm for that inboard bearing, that would be a breakthrough.

With a factory service interval of only 12,000 miles to re-grease these, I've often thought about doing what you appear to have already done here. It would take so much pain out of this cumbersome maintenance task.

Thanks,
Terry
#846
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LCAC_Man
Posted 2019-10-21 9:42 AM (#6982 - in reply to #6981)
Subject: Re: Brake Job and some Redesign


Elite Veteran

500100100252525
Location: Oceanside, CA
I think "it could" get to the inner bearing as there is clearance between the splined axle shaft and the spindle inner diameter...will it??? I think you'd have to pump that thing pretty full to make it happen and then you run the risk of too much expansion causing it to push out that inner axle seal and inner hub seal...I'll be happy if this just helps keep the outer bearing healthy.. grease has got much better in the past 40yrs, if you use a high quality synthetic polymer grease my guess is you could safely triple the service interval..


Edited by LCAC_Man 2019-10-21 9:44 AM
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BigRabbitMan
Posted 2019-10-21 10:10 AM (#6983 - in reply to #6883)
Subject: Re: Brake Job and some Redesign



Elite Veteran

1000100
Location: Cottage Grove, OR
I agree with Len as to if one uses a modern high quality synthetic grease that the service interval can be greatly extended. That is what has been used on my coach do I am comfortable traveling much further on a service.
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LCAC_Man
Posted 2019-10-29 6:18 PM (#7006 - in reply to #6883)
Subject: Re: Brake Job and some Redesign


Elite Veteran

500100100252525
Location: Oceanside, CA
After nearly 3 weeks I finally got my last pair of shoes back from re-lining, the outfit I used couldn't source any more of the stock "2041" linings and had to send the last pair to Scan-Pac to have them make a set of their woven linings for it. Cost was about the same for all of them, $35 a shoe, which is a bit steep but I had a hellavu time finding anyone that would take on the job..
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LCAC_Man
Posted 2019-11-08 6:03 PM (#7044 - in reply to #6883)
Subject: Re: Brake Job and some Redesign


Elite Veteran

500100100252525
Location: Oceanside, CA
New Ford Taurus master cylinder installed. It was the best combination of matching the jeep slave cylinder bores and fitting the space/servicing the fluid that I could find. http://www.fmcowners.com/mbbs22/photos/show-album.asp?albumid=202&p...
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5Dollar
Posted 2019-11-08 6:45 PM (#7045 - in reply to #7044)
Subject: Re: Brake Job and some Redesign


Veteran

100
Location: Bethune, SC
How does this accomplish the separation of the front and rear braking system separation?

Henry
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LCAC_Man
Posted 2019-11-08 9:34 PM (#7046 - in reply to #7045)
Subject: Re: Brake Job and some Redesign


Elite Veteran

500100100252525
Location: Oceanside, CA
Same as the stock hydro vac system each circuit of the master cylinder controls it's own hydro boost system. You may not see it but the rear circuit output is on the other side of the Master cylinder.
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5Dollar
Posted 2019-11-08 11:22 PM (#7047 - in reply to #6883)
Subject: Re: Brake Job and some Redesign


Veteran

100
Location: Bethune, SC
Only saw one line. Figured you must have another trick up your sleeve.

Henry
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LCAC_Man
Posted 2019-11-11 5:16 PM (#7059 - in reply to #6883)
Subject: Re: Brake Job and some Redesign


Elite Veteran

500100100252525
Location: Oceanside, CA
Had it out for a short test drive today, I've learned that when you disturb as many fittings in the brake system as I just did that you go in baby steps, I'll now let is sit a week and then go back and inspect all the spots I touched to make sure they are all still dry. But of course for every victory there is also a defeat, as I was pulling back in the driveway the air compressor clutch must have locked closed and smoked so I'll have that little shin kicker to deal with before I get it back out for a longer drive..I think I have a spare compressor left over from the van project so it may not be such a big deal..
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Duramaxer
Posted 2019-11-11 6:21 PM (#7060 - in reply to #7059)
Subject: Re: Brake Job and some Redesign



Veteran

1002525
Location: Oslo Norway
Thank you sharing
Any risk related to greasing wheel hubs thru external zerks? Why is that great “fix” not very common?

What the fu... do I know
Kjetil
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