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Elite Veteran
 
Location: Medford, OR | Lou, No blue colored brake fluid came out of it?? Everything I blew through it looked like normal clean looking brake fluid. So apparently it was already done before me. Do I still need to flush the system? I re-read what you wrote, your pretty adamant on flushing it....dam. I have a nice vacuum pump for evacuating. I like the sound of using DOT5 anyway...
Darrell, Yes same nice pan. I changed out the cork gasket for a rubber. The exhaust does sound nice, it rattles on idle pretty good, I noticed the rubber washers on the rear most mount is really loose, I think it's missing a couple rubber washers? You can send me pictures to my email, I'd like to see what you did.
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Extreme Veteran
Location: Scottsdale, Aridzona | Dan,
https://www.google.com/search?q=mixing+dot+5+and+dot+3+brake+fluids&...
Lou #120 |
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Expert
Location: Cottage Grove, OR | Based on Dans above post, it doesn’t sound like it had DOT 5 in it. |
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Extreme Veteran
Location: Scottsdale, Aridzona | If you do change to DOT 5 . . . shop around the Nets for it. Prices are all over. Convert every items price to Dollars per Ounce . . . then compare.
Lou #120 |
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Elite Veteran
Location: Victoria, BC. Canada | After going through this a few years back I spent about $30 bucks and built this: http://www.fmcowners.com/mbbs22/photos/show-album.asp?albumid=145&p...
There's a couple of pics of it in the Album. Not much to look at but it works like a hot-damn!
If purging the system (with de-nurtured alcohol) before the DOT 5 goes in - which IIRC back then Billy said was a 'must-do' - I reckon it makes more sense to 'push & flush' all of it out vs trying to suck it out.
Not sure how you'd get the alcohol out for sure. Maybe air? Opinions on doing this would sure help?
Just my 2-bits.
Terry
#846 |
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Contributor
Location: Bowling Green Ky. | Lowering the atmospheric pressure with vacuum will boil off the residual alcohol 
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Contributor
Location: Bowling Green Ky. | Copy that on the pan. I put a newer version on my old 92 first gen Dodge. Simple and very effective design.
Dan, back to the brake fluid color. Drain a sample into a glass or clear plastic container. It will be a transparent purple/blue color. There was a container in the storage compartment with the silicon brake fluid. If you have some pour a sample into a jar and compare the two. Pushing alcohol or pulling it through, either will work. The vacuum will boil off the remaining residue when you are finished. Just as a vacuum on a air cond or refrigeration system boils off water residue in the system, by lowering the pressure, which enables it to reach the boiling point of the liquid residue left behind, or which entered the system when opened up for service repairs. Hope that makes sense. Lol |
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Elite Veteran
Location: Victoria, BC. Canada | Sounds plausible.
I've previously leaned towards 'pressure-bleeding' mostly because Jim Black recommended it along with a few other's on the Forum's. Of course, both methods (vacuum & pressure) enable one to mostly do the job alone.
I guess there's pro's & con's to both methods and if any of you'd care to chime-in with a vote (and why you choose one over the other?) that could be useful to many.
Pressure Bleeding.
Pro's:
- if your canister is big enough you only have to fill it once to do the entire coach.
- 'pushing' the old fluid (and anything else in the lines) out ahead of the new incoming fluid might have a superior 'flushing' effect. Not positive on this, just a suspicion. There's physics at play here that are way above me.
Cons:
- more cumbersome and time-consuming hooking up the bleeder connections to the two switch-block inlets.
- you need to keep a close eye on the level of fluid in the container. If it gets too low - you're pushing-air!
- you need to keep an eye on the pressure and maintain it with a few pumps every now and then, depending on the size/integrity of your pump. (I usually only have to pump mine back up once for the entire job. I start around 15-psi)
- when you're done and you hook the two lines from the master back up to the switch block, you'll still need a helper to 'pedal-bleed' the last of the air and old fluid out of the master and those two short lines.
Vacuum-bleeding.
Pros:
- no need to unhook any brake lines at the master or switch block.
- if canister is large enough could likely do the whole coach in one shot.
Cons:
- have to be vigilant on checking and maintaining the fluid level in the master reservoirs, or, you could 'suck-air' in and you'd have to start all over. If you don't have a helper to do this, I could envision a lot of climbing in & out from under the coach and back & forth etc. (I'm envisioning a brake-fluid container positioned securely over the master to use gravity to feed both reservoirs, same principle as those upside-down watering containers for chickens (and dogs and cats and people) that simply 'burps' more fluid downward as required)
- maybe more pumping action required to maintain vacuum, especially if you do it with one of those smaller pistol-grip jobs. I have one of them 'Mighty Vac' jobbies for oil-extraction etc and it has a larger globe-shaped canister and perhaps that would do the job with less pumping, especially if you could put a shut-off valve on it (to hold vacuum) when you were done each bleed.
Anyone else added to this, would be cool.
Terry
#846 |
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Contributor
Location: Bowling Green Ky. | I prefer pressure bleeding for the final method.
My example for vacuum was to remove the dot 3 fluid , then flush and evaporate the residue in the system with the vacuum.
Hard to beat the old school, with one on the pedal and one underneath. The only negative is, how much life do you use up of your new master cylinder with all of the pumping during the bleeding process. They also have the plates that can be put ontop of mc to force fluid through. Just a lot of work either way. Lol
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Elite Veteran
Location: Victoria, BC. Canada | Thanks Darrell.
Good thing to know. Was wondering since a vacuum would remove the alcohol then does it follow that compressed air would also work? Less pumping ;-0
The thing is, same as when spray painting etc, you'd have to have a good water-trap/filter on your line so you're not sending more moisture into the system. That would suck... but not in a good way.
Terry
#846 |
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Contributor
Location: Bowling Green Ky. | If you wanted to flush with pressure after the vacuum. Nitrogen would be the best gas. Cheap and , zero moisture. As common practice in low temp refrigeration systems. Vacuum to 30 inhg. Bring back to 0 psi atm, with nitrogen. Repeat three times to sweep all moisture from the system. Of coarse this is extreme because of the no moisture allowed in a low temp refrigeration system. A simple flush with nitrogen would do the trick on a brake system. |
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Elite Veteran
Location: Victoria, BC. Canada | Interesting. I think I like the 'using atmospheric pressure with vacuum' to blow off the alcohol idea better. Not sure where I'd get a bottle of nitrogen and/or what the hell I would do with it after the brake blow-out thing? Fill my tires? Take it to a kids birthday party and let'em all inhale it so they talk-funny? No wait... that's helium.
Terry
#846 |
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Contributor
Location: Bowling Green Ky. | Rental or, if you know someone in the ac/ refrigeration trade. Probably let you borrow one. Wish I was closer, I could lone you mine. It is similar to oxygen or propane, tank with regulator. Oxygen regulator may work the same tank. Check with your local bottled gas distributor.
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Elite Veteran
Location: Victoria, BC. Canada | Driving there as we speak! 
Terry
#846 |
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Contributor
Location: Bowling Green Ky. | Dan here is some pics of the homemade vacuum extractor
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Elite Veteran
Location: Medford, OR | Thanks for all the vacuum/pressure bleeding advice, I may put DOT5 back in it soon. idk.
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Elite Veteran
Location: Medford, OR | So I took 324 to the tire shop to have some new tires mounted, I pulled in Friday morning around 9:30, the guy who came out to help didn't say much, was kinda grumpy, and I thought great? I hope we don't run into any stud or lug issues, because this guy is already not real happy....He immediately grabbed a floor jack and placed it under the front leaf and jacked up the front, he then brought out a large air jack and started sliding it under the rear of the coach..I said, "Here is the jack point for the rear end"...and pointed and showed him the correct spot to place the jack. He said "Im jacking it up under the rear axle"...I said "No, it doesn't have a rear axle, use the spot I just showed you"...He gave me an evil eye look like I didn't know what the hell I was talking about look???lol. He then started to jack up the rear in the factory jack point, but then jack ran out of height...just before the inner duel came up...So he dropped it back down out of disgust, went back inside the tire repair area and drug out a larger air jack, it lifted it up just fine. While this was going on, I told him that I want to tighten all the lugs down with my own equipment that is carried in the rig, in other words, by hand. He thought I was crazy. He said "Why??" I told him I may be doing so brake work soon and I need to get these wheels off at home. He then questioned me about "How soon you doing the brake work?"....I basically told him not to worry about it....Sooo back to jacking the rig up...He went to the other side and jacked up the front, easy. He then grabbed another air jack and started to jack up the driver side rear and soon found out that the jack didn't go high enough. Im standing here watching, and thinking, "Why does he need to get all four corners of the rig up in the air???", just do one side at a time??? So he came to terms, and said, "Well, I guess I'll have to do one side at a time"....lol. So going back to the passenger side, he removed the chrome lug nut covers and then proceeded not to find the correct size socket...He tried a couple different ones, and before he had time to try and use the incorrect socket on my lugs, I said "Hold on, I think I have a socket inside the rig?". I opened up the storage dept and BAM, there was the 1-1/2" three quarter drive socket!! (Thanks Darrell!) The tire guy was impressed, he said he could of went out to one of the service trucks and probably found a socket, but he thanked me for having one....He then removed all three wheels and started mounting the new tires. While he was bringing out a new tire/wheel at a time, he looked at the rear suspension and said "Oh, now I see what you were talking about? It doesn't have a rear axle, I thought you were crazy?".....I laughed and explained some more about the FMC to him. He started talking more friendly to me now, and I felt I didn't need to be short with him. He slid the rear inner tire up and on the hub and started the thimbles, I grabbed the lug wrench/bar and threaded them on and tightened them up. 324 had a nice heavy lug wrench with a cheater bar. I cranked them down to a few hundred pounds, then went to the front and did the same. After threading the lugs on by hand a couple times, I decided to grab the 3/4" air gun and snug them up first before I used the manual method. He came out and said "That's cheating"..with a laugh. I knew he was now opening up and being more talkative. The tire store I was at was a Michelin dealer, and the new tires that were being put on weren't Michelins, but he liked them, it only took 4 ounces of weight on the passenger front to balance, and 1 ounce on the driver steer. He was impressed. By the time it was all over, we had bs'd about different things and we shook hands. While I stood there with my wallet, waiting for him to print the bill, I thought to myself, "He's going to try and charge me more than what I was quoted over the phone a couple weeks earlier".....Then he said that'll be $$. It was less than what I was quoted! Happy customer here. The tires feel great.
http://www.fmcowners.com/mbbs22/photos/show-album.asp?albumid=200&p...
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Elite Veteran
Location: Victoria, BC. Canada | Okay, what tires went on it?
I can hardly wait to have to pay for 22.5's something or other for mine when I do the brake/wheel swap.
Sure I'll be walkin' funny afterwards...
Terry
#846 |
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Contributor
Location: Bowling Green Ky. | Glad all that worked out Dan. You are welcome on the tools. Let me share a tire and alignment story about 324. 2009 Family was planning a Colorado run for my daughters high school graduation trip. Purchased two brand new Michelin's for the front. Took them to a reputable shop hear in Bowling Green Ky. Will not mention the name out of respect. Tires mounted and I figured since this was a large truck and Rv certified center, I would have them check the alignment and make it drive perfect. Lol . So we hit the road and each time I stop to get fuel I am doing my walk around while the tank is filling and the front tires seem to be wearing excessively. Well just trying not to worry about it, we finally arrive to our campsite on The Arkansas River between Cannon City and Aspen. I have maybe 1/8 inch to 1/4 inch of tread left after traveling 1200 miles. I was not happy  . Told my son to grab a tape measure and meet me in front of 324. I crawled underneath and we measured side to side, front and rear on the front inner wheel lip. Towed in by almost 1 inch. My wife spent about two days trying to calm me down. Long story short. I made a drawing of the measurements we found and my son and I got the pipe wrench out and did a Kentucky redneck good ole boy alignment right there in the campground. Spent two weeks enjoying Colorado and drove her back to Kentucky, with almost zero tire wear. I sure thought on the way out there I was fighting the wheel more than normal, just thought it was the wind or different vehicle I was towing. Any who, when I got back home I went back to the Tire shop and presented the owner with pictures and my drawing of the wheel alignment measurements. He proceeded to tell me that the guy who set it up was the best in the area on rvs and road tractors. He asked me what I wanted him to do. I said , I want two brand new Michelin tires. He agreed, but said we will not be doing another alignment, because it seems to be dead on. Lol Pipe wrench and tape measure verses all there fancy alignment tools. Lol. I drove it six more years on the same tires. The two new ones they went with Joe L, when he bought 324 from me in 2015.
Just thought all you all, would enjoy that story.
Have a great day
Darrell D |
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Elite Veteran
Location: Medford, OR | The steers that were on it were worn on the outsides and old. The new ones never came with the rig. I bet the steers I just took off were from your alignment story! |
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Contributor
Location: Bowling Green Ky. |  wow, that is crazy. Date code would be the incriminating evidence.
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Elite Veteran
Location: Medford, OR | The ones on the rear were 2003. I just assumed that the steers were also, but they must of been 2009. |
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Contributor
Location: Bowling Green Ky. | Copy that Yes the rear were replaced before our 2004, 8000 miles in 14 days. Kentucky, Missouri, Mitchell South Dakota, Rapid City WY, Yellowstone, Bryce Canyon, Las Vegas, Grand Canyon, Missouri, Home, Kentucky.
Man you are brushing some dust off the memory banks. Lol
Thank you
Have a great day |
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Elite Veteran
Location: Oceanside, CA | 8000 miles in 14 days...did you just take pictures from the windows!!?? |
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Contributor
Location: Bowling Green Ky. | Well im sure you remember Movie, National Lampoons Vacation, with Chevy Chase Lol It was an adventure. Lots of good memories. That is what the coaches are all about. Family Memories
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#324
