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Contributor
| I have just bought #356 and as I was crawling under the front end I found mounted to 2 cross bars approx 16 lead bars that I guess weigh 50 -75# each. My question is do they need to be there. I was thinking a counter weight but that seems a bit much. the original APU is gone so the only weight in the back to speek of is eng/tran. Any thoughts would be welcome. Thanks |
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Expert
 
Location: Cottage Grove, OR | Does it still run the 440 or has it been converted to diesel and, if so, what engine? |
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Contributor
| It still has original 440I |
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Veteran
Location: Canton, (Sixes) GA | Mine and several other diesel conversions have steel plates bolted under the front and behind the front bumper to improve handling. I supose in some cases it may help with the original 440, but it would be just one of the procedures for improved handling. Correct alignment, replacing worn and binding parts, Timbren rubber spring installation and so on. . . . . I agree it sounds like excessive weight compensation in your case. Are the fresh water tanks still under there? |
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Contributor
| No I dont think so the lead bars are tucked up behind bumper and in front leaf spring. I want to remove them but want to make sure they are not needed. I am sure they were not added at factory because the welds on supports look like bird S_ _ T. I am hoping to lighten the load by 500 700#and think I am going to cut them out and see what happens. |
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Expert
Location: Cottage Grove, OR | I will concur with what Denny said in that I expect that a previous owner added them to improve the coaches handling. |
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Contributor
| It seems to handle good now I will let you know how it handles with the lead out. |
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Contributor
Location: Carthage Missouri | I would advise you to leave well enough alone. I am one who had major problem until I added #600 the front end with my 8.2 Detroit in the rear. If you have time on your hands and do your own welding we would like to hear your results. |
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Veteran
Location: Canton, (Sixes) GA | Based on Jim Blacks earlier post, "#356 was a mobile control tower and used as a shuttle at Vandenburg air base for shuttle on the desert." Evidently the coach was (as all NASA coaches probably were) heavily modified. It could have been added at that time, but from your statement it does not sound like space industry installation or welding. Evidently sometime later. I will second Jim W's comment, leave well enough alone. A lot of coach owners would give their eye teeth to have that weight up front. Just curious.. since it was a "control tower", has the roof been modified or show evidence of something once mounted up there? Denny/0890 |
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Contributor
| I beleve if its not broke dont fix it. But I cant help thinking if the factory didnt put it there am i just lugging around alot of extra weight. I dont know if its that big of a deal I was just thinking less weight better MPG ? |
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Contributor
| At this time the roof is under2' of snow so I dont know. There is evidence of NASA on the inside there are nasa bar code sticker on diffrent parts dead bolts and more to be discovered. |
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Veteran
Location: Canton, (Sixes) GA | That weight is something like 3 or 4 percent, probably won't make much difference. Think about it for a while. Be sure to update the coach database.. http://www.fmcowners.com/mbbs22/coach.asp? .. Denny |
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Expert
Location: Cottage Grove, OR | I would concur with Denny in that the effect on MPG will be unmeasurable, but you may have very measurable effects on handling as Jim indicated may be possible. Air resistance and how aggressive you are with your right foot have the greatest effects on MPG. Weight really only affects mileage while accelerating and while climbing grades. What percentage of the time is that? I expect that it is quite low. |
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Extreme Veteran
Location: Ignacio Colorado | I suggest that you have the coach weighed front and rear before you remove any "balast" in the front of the coach.
Yes this is different from any coach that usually comes up. If it was a mobile control tower, it may have, at one time contained heavy radio gear and needed the balast in the front. Can you get it weighed before removal. I am sure most that are following this would like to know. Even if you get the coach weighed and then the removed components weight.
Thanks so much.
Bill |
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Contributor
| Great idea I will head to the mill and get it weighed and post the findings. Thanks!! After talking to jm Black I think I have made the choice to leave the weight there untill I am sure of not needing it. The APU has been removed but I plan on replacing it. |
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Veteran
Location: Canton, (Sixes) GA | You may want to start a dialog with the historians at NASA and/or The Ames Research Center. There may be something in the archives with regard to the coach you now call yours. Just a thought, pretty sure I would if it were mine. Too bad Al Gore didn't invent the internet sooner. <G> ..Denny
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Contributor
| I did contact NASA Motorpool and they were less then helpful. As I said before the coach has just the window in the door on driver side and the front window on pass side. I plan on cutting in the window behind driver seat and leave the back with no windows. |
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Contributor
| I put it on the scale yesterday and the front weight was 5200# back was 8240# total of 13380#. The fuel tanks was only 1/3 full. I think this is less the factory weight of 14500# so at this point the weight will stay put with a few new welds. |
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Expert
Location: Cottage Grove, OR | Now I need to weigh mine before the diesel conversion is done. Bill, have you weighed yours as it is stock in all respects? |
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Extreme Veteran
Location: Ignacio Colorado | I ran it across the scales on return from Minden last summer.
On the way home we took #902 across the scales of a local gravel pit. With full water tanks, empty holding tanks, less than half tank of fuel, family and all our gear. We weighed in at 15,222 pounds. GVWR is 15,900 lbs so I have room to spare.
I never thought to weigh the front vs rear at that time, hindsight-20/20. GVWR on the late coaches is more than the early ones. I was hauling a bunch of extra parts at the time but that will be normal when traveling cross country. Bill |
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Contributor
Location: Bluevale, Ontario | Bill,
Do you have alot of stuff in your coach?, spare parts, tools the kitchen sink? I've weighed my coach many times, with full tanks, passengers etc. My coach always comes in at 5000 lb. front and 10,000 lb rear. i would think an original coach should weigh less than 15,000 lbs. Frank. |
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Extreme Veteran
Location: Ignacio Colorado | Frank
We were on the return from minden. I did bring a batch of spare parts. A set of axle U-joints, driveshaft, an aluminum intake (now intalled on the coach) and another carb. I did buy another cast iron 2 barrel manifold for the 440 in Nebraska so I had that too. A tool box (full). Spare water pump. plus a few more odds and ends. Barney is the one that brought the kitchen sink. As we know the Fire box was not in my coach thanks to Denny. We do have one now with #902 on the ends, (go Stephen). The original 8-track must weigh a ton. Bill |
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Regular
Location: Santa Cruz, Calif. | I was about ot post what Bill did here. Electronic gear in the 70s was much heavier..... remember tubes? And big power-hungry transformers and power supplies to feed them. At an estimated 50lbs ea and 16 of them translates to 800lbs and that is in the ballpark of what many add to their coaches.
I agree with the "leave it alone" crowd. You might even want to put better welds there.
A friend of mine who runs a sound company had a Winnebago back in the 70s that he used as a sound mix platform for shows. He had the mix console and effects racks in the back and installed a swing-open rear window. Even with the front engine, it was too tail heavy and he had to put pig weights up front to give him some steering control. That is probably what is happening with your coach. |
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Contributor
| Thanks Dale for the info I will post Pict soon just in case anyone cares to see what I am working with. Bret |
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Extreme Veteran
Location: Ignacio Colorado | Hey gang, here is a thread from the archive about coach weight. I ran #902 across the scales on the trip home from the first mega rally in Minden. It weighed in at 15,222 pounds. Look through this thread so I don't have to relist everything on board. We had been cross country and had extra parts and tools. Me the wife and both daughters. Only weighed whole coach.
Bill |
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Lead Out !!
