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Coach #477 in Norway
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BigRabbitMan
Posted 2006-11-12 4:51 PM (#114)
Subject: Coach #477 in Norway



Location: Cottage Grove, OR
(71.143.17.249)

In the near future, coach #477 will be traveling from the U.S.A. to Norway. There the new owner intends to complete it's restoration to near origninal and then use it for travel around Europe.  We wish them well and look forward to contiuous updates of the progress.

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fmc1032
Posted 2006-11-12 10:51 PM (#115 - in reply to #114)
Subject: RE: Coach #477 in Norway



(72.228.35.1)		Hi, I am sure it will spark a real interest among the RV's in Europe. Imagine an American made vehicle that is made so well. You dont hear that anymore.

Joe
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Duramaxer
Posted 2006-11-13 4:03 AM (#116 - in reply to #114)
Subject: RE: Coach #477 in Norway



Location: Oslo Norway
(81.191.132.96)		Thank you for you interest, this is really great motivation for me.
There will be issues with the shipment, norweegian customs and veichle regulations. Always you will have som suprises when doing things never done before.Also we will have to do things a bit different because of roads and weather conditions over here. One of few advantage for us is that cooling will not be such a big issue like in the US. Dont know if systems like defroster and other will be up to winterconditions but my experience in general is that original is often very capaple if in optimal condition and well tuned. I do learn a lot from the two FMC owner forums, and think all of you sharing information related to the FMC is a helpefull part of my project.

There will be a lot of insulation and rustproofing to do I think, for periods of the year our roads are having poored on to them huge amouts of salt and other chemicals to keep them ice free. I do not know very much about the technical condition on #477 yet, but did choose it because of of good structure, and the low prictag allowing for less import tax to be payed. MCR will look into things and we make decicions on what to do as we go. We are having MCR doing full break overhaul, new wheels/tyres and new windsheilds. And also service the engine and transmission. Leslie is giving good fair advises i think. We have limited budgets on this so we have to learn more when we get the coach back here in Norway, and then order the most needed parts from US.

We have planned a tent wich will be attachable to the coach, one like you might have seen used in Europe on caravans.The tent will also fuction much like an awning when side walls is not attached. It is planned to be in full lenght and functional as depot-tent when we go to the mx.races where we need the space to house 2 mx-bikes and equipment. The trailer for the motorbikes is not yet purcased, we are still looking for the right preowned lightweight enclosed trailer to come up for sale.
And then we have to make some changes because the normal voltage in Norway and most of Europe is 220v. It will probably have to be a combination of 110v and 220v but will have to accept 220v when docking in race depots and campinggrouds. Reaserch so far indicates we can do with the original generator, and we might go with that if it is working or in repairable condition.If the fridge and and 110v ac turnes out bad, then we will go 220v all the way. The choise if we need new generator will be a Robin Generator with a Subaru engine. Will also take into concideration the weight of generator calls for a new one. Since we live in a country where the sun never rises for several months during winther, #477 will need some serious high quality extra lights up front and probably a very good back up camera. If i can afford it I would love to have Piaa rally lights up front like i have on my GMC Sierra pick-up truck. Piaa rally’s with 100/130w is the best driving lamps I have ever owned, and I would prefer them over 900$ each Hella xenon’s. The chrome Piias will not look to bad on the fmc I think but xenons would be totally wrong. We will have som serious focus on 12v generator, all batteries an wiring due to the cold weather and the darkness. Batteries worth 3500$ is sitting in my garage on maintanence charging at this moment waiting to be placed in #477. But extreme quality batteries are no good without proper charging so that is to be provided also. We have a company in town spezilacing in extrem and military charging applications and I have signals from them saying they might be interested in helping us. I understand there are some issues on belt drives of the engine so I am waiting to learn more before I choose what do do on 12v generator. I have good experiences with putting heating mirrors under batteries to keeep them warmer in the wintertime allowing for much better charging.
We have regulations demaning snow chains to be carried in veiche during winter and those are currently beeing produced allready because they have to be in coach when I am going to pick it up from the port when it arrives. Propan system has to be rebuilt and certified to regulations over here but we will keep the original oven and stove even if we have to have new burners put in them. Also water inlets and waiste outlets will have to be altered to our standard.

Total amout of documentation and certificates that we need get is crazy and will be a big issue, what we need at least is; approved full veichle tecnical inspection, brake test certificate, propan system check an pressuretest, 220v system certificate, seat belt harness documentation and more. Also a lot of documentation on matters of import. The worst thing might be to document the date of the first regitration in the US. I will be very thankfull on any help on that matter, such as wich state #477 first went on road and whah offical office or site to start searching for documentation. As crazy as it might sound if we could not make this import under “historical veichle” regulations there would bee even more, icluding a crash test! Most of this is regulations coming from the Europeean Union. We did think we had a lot of regulations in Norway before also but after adapting to EU (still not members in the union) things have gone totally bananas. Fortunately most officals are quite incompetent on technical matters and often they are happy to sign and put a stamp on anything as long as they get a lot of paperwork presented, regardless of what the papers are saying. It is a matter of offical ignorance and arrogance. We will not let this stop us but are prepared for some fights. Aslo we are proud members on Amercan Car Club of Norway and they have some good resorces to help us out.

Having said all this and writing like I know what to do, I still have not even seen a FMC and of course I am a total novice on this.

Kjetil
#477
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MCR
Posted 2006-11-28 9:09 AM (#133 - in reply to #114)
Subject: Re: Coach #477 in Norway


Location: Illinois
(65.127.122.102)		Kjetil -

We know from a FMC list we have that was made by FMC CORP. in the Seventies where the coaches were sold with registration dates so that has been checked for your coach and is available to you.

Headlights - we can get here in the STATES headlights that have 100 or more watt bulbs that will fit the original headlight buckets. In fact after having the added wattage lights for 5 or more years in my FMC , I have installed a second generation of these added wattage lights in my FMC and have installed them so that all four lights are on in both the high and low beam patterns.

Should you not use the automotive air conditioning, you can remove the evaporator core from the dash heater and attach the a/c outlets to additional outlets for the defroster. With a proper heater valve the unit will drive you out in the front. You can add a mid ship and rear heater which will provide good comfort to 10 degrees Farenheit. If you would insulate the heater hoses that should lower the ambient temperature at which you can operate comfortably.

I believe the coldest that I was out in my FMC was at ZERO degrees Farenheit and with the SUN SHINING it was fine BUT once the sun faded I needed a sweater and ultimately would have required more if we had not gotten home. This was with both my rear and mid ship heaters running.

The ENGINE BELT DRIVES are NO PROBLEM if you have good pulley shives with all the pulley shives properly aligned with the CRANKSHAFT PULLEY - PLUS the belts must be properly sized in both length and width - and, of course, properly tensioned at installation, after 100 miles and periodically thru their life of 1 to 2 years.

THANK YOU for your comments as to my assistance with your situation as I try to assist all FMC OWNERS with their needs with input as to what we have found to work on the FMC COACHES over the last 30 PLUS YEARS.

HAPPY TRAILS - Leslie Hoagland




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Duramaxer
Posted 2006-11-29 3:44 AM (#134 - in reply to #133)
Subject: Re: Coach #477 in Norway



Location: Oslo Norway
(81.191.132.96)		Thank you Leslie
The documentation on history of #477 is very good news. One less thing to worry about

We do have those high output bulbes in the original headlamps of our GMC Truck. Piia makes them for almost any type of lamp. Not road legal, but a very good lightsourse when combined with reflectors and lenses in good condition, good regulatotion and proper wiring.Good function from optimized or well tuned original parts and systems is what we are seeking, always. So if we do not need extras, that is perfect.

Leslie, your information on the heating systems is useful. Even if we do not have polar bears running around in the streets, we will need the coach to be useful down to -10 fahrenheit. This is not only for comfort but also matter of keeping the coach dry an nice inside all year round.Insulated windows will also have to be considered, I know that MCR have them, and also there is a company here in Oslo that makes custom plastic (vacum formed) windows that can be mounted on the outside when needed. But first we will try out with outside window-covers together with inside curtians of som kind.
Good insulation and effective ventialion inn all ares is what we need. Besides uncomfortable it really is unhealty to live in combination of cold and damp enviroments.

Now, from reading my postings I can se I have made quite a number of promises in writing. It looks nice in here but real life is what matter so we will have to wait and see.

Kjetil
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MCR
Posted 2006-11-29 6:05 PM (#135 - in reply to #114)
Subject: Re: Coach #477 in Norway


Location: Illinois
(65.127.122.102)		Kjetil -

The insulated windows are great and I have for 15 years tried to justify the added cost for my personal coach. We have installed them in several FMC COACHES over the years and they are GREAT for both COLD and HEAT..

Plastic windows are problematic if they are not sufficiently thick or strong so that they do not deflect with aging effect.


Good to hear of your thoughts on changes needed for your environment. The insulation on the HEATER HOSES should allow you to go below ZERO degrees Farenheit.

Another thought would be new window channel felt and fuzzy closure striping. These should improve your ability to stay warm. We at MCR maintain inventory on both of these parts.

HAPPY TRAILS - Leslie
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Duramaxer
Posted 2006-12-05 1:48 PM (#147 - in reply to #135)
Subject: Re: Coach #477 in Norway



Location: Oslo Norway
(81.191.132.96)		Time for a update on the progress;

Date of travel is planned to 11 January. There was no way we could make it earlier due to situation on work. Planning on arriving Lincoln on a Thursday and head for Port of New Jersey late friday or very early Saturday. From what I have found on net it should be at least 13 hour’s of driving and then also I would like to have a easy start keeping off the fastest highways the first 6 or more hours. Think I need to give the coach a easy start on its new life beacuse it has been standing still for some time, and I will give it some time to “loosen up” again. Experience from stored military equipment has learend me this is very important. The flight back for Norway is in the afternoon monday.

What we are having done before picking it up is now;
Alcoas and new Michelin’s, full brake overhaul, normal maintanence such as belts, hoses, fluids, filters and tune-up, wheel alignment, trailer hitch, new windshields, hollow rubber springs for the rear, and grease to wheel bearings and axle shaft bearings. Will change all the wheel-bearings when back home.

Will I make it to Port of New Jersey in time??

We could really use rear bunks for our kids but limited budget does not have room for ordering this done from MCR, so if any of you have taken the bunk beds out of your coach and are willing to sell please let me know. Also I think we are still in need of a good original orange dinette table.

Kjetil
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MCR
Posted 2006-12-05 5:20 PM (#148 - in reply to #147)
Subject: Re: Coach #477 in Norway


Location: Illinois
(65.127.122.102)		Kjetil -


I would suggest that you stay on the INTERSTATES in your adventure to NEW JERSEY.


This wil keep you out of the small towns and YOU CAN hold DOWN youir speed to 50 MPH if you desire in the early going.

You should have good opportunity to make NEW JERSEY without major difficulty.

We have transported coaches further distances with little or no advance preparation. In the last TWENTY plus years. we blew 3 of the old 17 inch tires.plus one engine failed.


MERRY CHRISTAMAS TO ALL -Leslie Hoagland
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MCR
Posted 2006-12-05 5:21 PM (#149 - in reply to #147)
Subject: Re: Coach #477 in Norway


Location: Illinois
(65.127.122.102)		Kjetil -


I would suggest that you stay on the INTERSTATES in your adventure to NEW JERSEY.


This wil keep you out of the small towns and YOU CAN hold DOWN youir speed to 50 MPH if you desire in the early going.

You should have good opportunity to make NEW JERSEY without major difficulty.

We have transported coaches further distances with little or no advance preparation. In the last TWENTY plus years. we blew 3 of the old 17 inch tires.plus one engine failed.


MERRY CHRISTMAS TO ALL -Leslie Hoagland
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Duramaxer
Posted 2007-01-08 3:16 PM (#194 - in reply to #114)
Subject: RE: Coach #477 in Norway



Location: Oslo Norway
(81.191.132.96)		Now it is soon time to go pick up the coach.
This has been a very long time of preparation and waiting but now finally we will get to see the thing for the very first time this Tursday.

Of course this trip would be like routine to all of you that is spending so much time on the road over there but to me it will be some kind of adventure I must admit. I guess some of you would feel the same if going to Europe for the first time and having such a drive in a veichle you had bought but never seen before

The list of things done on coach has of course grown and I am starting to be very confident we will make it without to much trouble. I am a lot more concerned about the process of getting it road approwed over here than I am about getting the coach to the port, as things has turned out.

Have made a not so serious attempt blogging in english http://lsbgarage.blogspot.com/
There I also might be able to upload some pictures during the trip if my cellular is working ok online over there.

Thank you so very much those of you that has offered docking for us during the travel. Hope you have recived my answers.

Kjetil
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MCR
Posted 2007-01-08 4:06 PM (#195 - in reply to #194)
Subject: Re: Coach #477 in Norway


Location: Illinois
(65.127.122.102)		Kjetil - Very interesting is your LSB GARAGE website..

Your history of FMC Corporation is very good with a couple of corrections-

the final tally of FMC Coaches was 1050 with 135 buses in the mix.

The Southwset FMC Club disbanded a few years ago.

The FMC MOTOR COACH OWNERS CLUB was started 6 years ago last fall with only FMC OWNERS as members.

There are 700-800 coaches that are still out there ready for DUTY.


HAPPY TRAILS in coming to AMERICA and going home to NORWAY.

Leslie
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BigRabbitMan
Posted 2007-01-08 10:39 PM (#196 - in reply to #114)
Subject: Re: Coach #477 in Norway



Location: Cottage Grove, OR
(71.142.218.29)		I enjoyed reading your blog. I look forward to following your travels with the FMC. Be sure to give us indepth "Captain's Log" descriptions of your travels.
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Duramaxer
Posted 2007-01-17 3:01 AM (#207 - in reply to #114)
Subject: Re: Coach #477 in Norway



Location: Oslo Norway
(81.191.132.96)		We made it!
Sorry for not beeing able to make any updates. Will share the whole story soon when I get the time to do the writing.
We had seriuos trouble with brakes and fuel but made it to New Jersey and ended up on a 3 hour margin to catch the flight back home. Still happy to be alive after almost crashing the coach coming of the interstate for our first fuel stop, front brakes locked and engine pushing the coach in 2 or 3 gear with 1500 rpm idle. Scary stuff, could have been fatal on that wet concrete!

Would like to come back and experience more of USA.
I have posted some pictures in the gallery.
Kjetil

Edited by Duramaxer 2007-01-17 3:12 AM
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MCR
Posted 2007-01-17 9:15 AM (#208 - in reply to #114)
Subject: Re: Coach #477 in Norway


Location: Illinois
(65.127.122.102)
Kjetil -

Nice to have met you and look forward to serve you and your FMC Coach.

HAPPY TRAILS - Leslie Hoagland

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RHerbert
Posted 2007-01-17 12:30 PM (#209 - in reply to #208)
Subject: Re: Coach #477 in Norway



Location: San Clemente, Ca.
(66.123.125.170)		Those pictures are excellent examples of why I do not live where it snows. Yuck.
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Duramaxer
Posted 2007-01-20 2:40 PM (#210 - in reply to #114)
Subject: RE: Coach #477 in Norway



Location: Oslo Norway
(82.147.35.34)		We had a very interesting journey to the US and we would like to come back soon traveling with a little more time to enjoy.

We started out from home 04:00 in the morning on Thursday and left from Oslo Airport Gardermoen to Amsterdam, from Amsterdam we flew to Detroit and then to Bloomington Illinois. We were picked up at Bloomington by Leslie in his FMC and I really liked the first sight of a FMC Motorcoach as he drove up in front of the terminal.

When we arrived at MCR we got to see our #477 and the other coaches there. 477 was back from its first test drive with Chris and went in to the garage for more work to be done. Our intention was never to find a coach in very good condition but to find the one with the right potential at the right price. I think #477 is the right coach, but it is more of a mess than one could have hoped for. It looked like something that had been sitting in the woods unattended for several years. I will not complain, I made my decision based on guessing and I hope you all will forgive me for saying we simply do have different preferences coming from different places of the world. Even after carrying out almost two days more of work the coach was not in such a state it would be taken to road over here. I will have to have better time to get thing sorted out next time I do a thing like this. I have picked just the right one from what I could se of the other coaches there.

Leslie was very kind all the time and drove us around, picked us up in the mornings and even gave us some very qualified guiding in the town of Lincoln. Weather was a mess on Friday and ice was building up on everything. I would prefer any solid Norwegian snow-storm before that weird icing. The weather-cannel reported on roads being closed down west of us and the worst weather was coming our way. There was reported to be only rain still in east and we realized we had to leave Saturday as early as possible or we would have to leave the coach behind and come that long way to pick her up once more some time later.
Under the pressure of having to go before the worst weather came in I made some very stupid and possibly dangerous decisions; we left even if I was not at all happy with the brakes as the front locking up very badly. We did not to clean out the gasoline tank and hoped to get away with just changing the filters. We did not take time to have the water holding tanks sorted so we could have added some weight up front and we did not check the tire-pressure ourselves as we assumed it was ok after having the new wheels. Also if I had spent some more time under the coach I would have noticed the clamp that was loose on the front spring and the rear shock’s lower bushings was totally gone, and so on. I can not blame anyone else for not being in control of things.

After the first mile of test driving the thing we had #477 named “The Dancing Queen”, it was all over the road and I blamed it on having no experience in driving it. But I have driven 50 ton full size trucks on worse roads feeling lot more comfortable. After looking at tire wear patterns and realizing we had contact surfaces small as those Lance Armstrong is running, we dropped the pressure and things got very much better. We also stopped by some road work going on and stole some sand bags to ad some weight up front, this also helped.

The brake adjustment was a mess, and we were not quite able to sort it out on the road with no tools and jack. I suspect left front drum is not round, and the adjusters in the rear do not have any “clicks”. I fear they do adjust them selves during driving. Drums will have to come off to check the basics and start all over again. There is no way I can live with it like it is and I will go all the way, may have drums grinded, shoes precut to drums dimensions and a rolling road adjustment if needed. I will look in to the option of installing a regulator in the hydraulics regulator to balance and adjust the brakes front to rear. I would like to be able to have the brakes balanced even if we are running lower weight up front. This is done lot of race cars and it might be a solution.

What slowed us up the most on the way east was the fuel problem. The tank is so dirty it should have been cleaned out or changed before travel. We went thru a lot of filters and also had to tear down the carb to have it cleaned roadside. I have seen a lot of repairs done under different conditions, from South Lebanon to Northern Norway, but I will rank what my friend were able to do to that carb on the pavement in the cold rain and the dark with a 10$ tool kit from Wall Mart, as the best I have ever seen! That will be a hard one to beat.
We did the did the carb clean out in PA and when we asked at the gas station what was the name of the town we really knew we had come to the right place when they said we were in Mechanicsburg! People there were was kind and offered all kinds of help. One guy went and woke up his brother in the middle of night to try find us some new spark plugs as they were pretty dirty at that time. When came back and the sparkplugs he got did not fit, he just simply took ours with him and return after half an hour with our plugs looking like brad new. Thank you, we will never forget.
The contamination was not our only fuel issue, the fuel pick up pipe in the tank broke and we ended up having only the upper 20 gallons of capacity usable, and also the fuel pipe in to the carb broke it had no clamps holding it, (another thing I should have noticed before departure) and we had gasoline pumped out on the hot engine.
The carb is junk and it was all the time, I am happy about the engine running as strong and good as it did with that poor fuel and poor carb, and I will be even more happy if we can conclude that it has not been damaged from that rusty fuel and running lean every time the filter clogged up. The plastic middle part of the carb was broken and poorly repaired with some glue or plastic material. The engine and transmission really was the upside of this coach. Now compression test and cylinder leak testing will give answers on if we have damaged it.
We did 8,5 miles pr gallon and I will not call that fuel so it will be interesting to se what we can do when things are optimal. It did not use very much oil and it always started very easy. We averaged 55 miles and that felt fast enough under those conditions. Speed and mpg calculations is all according to GPS.

We booked the delivery at port several weeks before we came over to the US but no one ever bothered to tell us that Monday was Martin Luther King’s day and port was closed! We were able to make last minute arrangements to deliver the coach to the agent and they would drive it to the shipping company. This is where it still is stuck!! After 5 days they have not been able to start the ting and now they state the ignition switch has to be changed.
I am really concerned about this since it does not make any sense, starting was never any problem. I just hope they have broken one of those old keys in there and that is why they are changing the switch. I feels so wrong thinking we were able to drive it across more than half the continent, have it delivered with a three hour margin before our plane left and now it is stuck a few hundred meters from the finish line! In worst case we will have to come back the long way across the Atlantic and have it fixed and drive it those few meters. Leslie is trying to help them on the starting issue now, but we could use any contact in NY that would be able to look at it as soon as possible.


Now I really hope to have the coach on a ship going to Norway soon and start working on it soon as possible.
The ultimate would be to one day have the coach shipped back and drive it around the US for a while and also take it to one of those rallies.


Kjetil
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MCR
Posted 2007-01-22 8:43 AM (#211 - in reply to #210)
Subject: Re: Coach #477 in Norway


Location: Illinois
(65.127.122.102)
Kjetil, etal -

Kjetil and Tors experiences can happen on many occasions when one does not go thru the mechanicals of the coach fully.

For if any vehicle has not been used on a regular basis - then if troubles are not experienced, one is VERY fortunate.

BUT we all have budget restrains that limit us in some manner.

One of Kjetil's difficulties is very problematic to us here at MCR. The New Michelin 8R19.5 tires were set at 75 psi - front and 85 psi - rear as is always the case when we start the test drives on a gasoline powered FMC Coach. On returning from the first test drive we completed 4 wheel alignment and suspension equalization. We then reduced tire pressures to 65 psi - front and 75 psi - rear to correct coach handling. Then Kjetil tells me that at some point they checked tire pressures at over 90 psi. NOW, how could the tire pressures have risen; unless tires were hot out on the road???? Kjetil tells me they were NOT.

It is unfortunate that the brake system got progressively worse as the first 50 miles had no problem; but after the next 20 miles, the front brakes began to grab.
We readjusted and again the first 10 miles was fine - but slight problem at end of second 10 miles. We readjusted yet another time. BUT with HINDSIGHT, the steel lines should have been replaced and drums turned down.

Also note that the FMC Brake System has no proportioning valve so that front and rear get full master cylinder pressures at the Hydravacs.

Normally we get no front wheel grabbing or locking with new hydraulic system. Nor have we had such reports from installers across North America when using parts supplied by MCR.

FMC #0477 had only 42,000 miles and this adds proof for the statement - IF YOU DO NOT USE IT, YOU LOSE IT.

IN the 30 years I have "played" with the FMC Coaches, I have never had a fuel tank draw tube problem. But if you wait long enough all kinds of problems will surface. And as I always say, I have not had that PROBLEM - YET !!!!!

BUT I pray that FMC Coach can be transported to NORWAY without further problems so that Kjetil may begin his Restoration of his FMC #0477..

HAPPY TRAILS - Leslie












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MCR
Posted 2007-01-22 10:54 AM (#212 - in reply to #211)
Subject: Re: Coach #477 in Norway


Location: Illinois
(65.127.122.102)
Kjetil, ETAL -

FMC #0477 now on way to PORT.

It seems the problem was NO FUEL. Solved by Lady at Shipper being aware that there was no smell of fuel during cranking of engine.

ALSO, to all FMC OWNERS - if your IGNTION SWITCH is sloppy - REPLACE the SWITCH. We at MCR have all the original style switches for your FMC in STOCK.

HAPPY TRAILS to ALL - Leslie

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Duramaxer
Posted 2007-01-22 2:19 PM (#213 - in reply to #212)
Subject: Re: Coach #477 in Norway



Location: Oslo Norway
(85.166.240.176)		Thank you for helping out once again, Leslie.

We will not waste efforts on trying to understand how lack of fuel will make you have to change the ingnition switch.

As long as our "Dancing Queen" is on her way to Norway we are happy.

Kjetil
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BigRabbitMan
Posted 2007-01-22 11:17 PM (#214 - in reply to #114)
Subject: Re: Coach #477 in Norway



Location: Cottage Grove, OR
(71.142.212.208)		All I can say is "WOW!".

And I thought I had dealt with some on the road problems. I am in agreement with Ron in that I am glad that I live in California and when I have to do my roadside repairs it is NOT in the snow and freezing weather. Kjetil, you are a resiliant man! #0477 is lucky to have you as it's new owner. After having spent a lot of time sitting, she will now get to see a lot of lands that few if any FMC's have traveled.

And I look forward to seeing her with you at the wheel on the road.
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Duramaxer
Posted 2007-01-30 3:54 PM (#224 - in reply to #114)
Subject: RE: Coach #477 in Norway



Location: Oslo Norway
(85.166.240.176)		0477 has left the country!
Today our coach was finally loaded on ship and has left Port Of New Jersey. This means it has cleared export issues also.

Coach has been loaded on the Wallenius-Wilhelmsen (Sweden+Norway) owned ship called Aida.
Aida was built last year, it is 199 meters long, and can take 6700 cars, or 3000 cars and 400 busses!! I will try to upload picture of the great ship.
The voyage has two more stops at US ports before crossing the Atlantic and it is scheduled to arrive at Bremerhaven Germany on February 15, there our coach probably will be loaded on another ship for last leg to Norway. Port of destination is Drammen, and that is just half an hour of driving from here.

All the best.
Kjetil
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MCR
Posted 2007-01-30 4:08 PM (#225 - in reply to #224)
Subject: Re: Coach #477 in Norway


Location: Illinois
(65.127.122.102)
Kjetil -

Good to hear of the trip progress for FMC #0477.

THIS FMC Coach #0477 will be the second FMC Coach to go to Europe, the first stayed in Europe for about 10 years and had many adventures.

Looking forward to seeing pictures of this GREAT ocean going ferry boat and FMC #0477's accomodations.

HAPPY TRAILS - Leslie Hoagland
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Duramaxer
Posted 2007-01-31 1:04 AM (#227 - in reply to #225)
Subject: Re: Coach #477 in Norway



Location: Oslo Norway
(81.191.132.96)		Yes Leslie, I was really happy to see on the online tracking service that the coach has started the voyage.

Regarding coaches in Europe; you showed me the coach that had been over here and come back but is there not at least one more? The Blok family traveled the US in heir coach and I belive I have been told they brought it back to Europe afterwards. I have not been able to reach Mr. Michiel Blok but he wrote in the forum their coach was number 4 think. Do we know if #004 is still in the US?

Also Stephen stated once; "a small number were sold into Europe and the
Middle East as new coaches"

If Anyone has information that might lead me to one or more coaches in Europe I will be very interested.
Chances are any coaches over here is taken out of service and I might be able to use some of what I am going to learn by restoring #477 to put them back on the road.

Kjetil
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MCR
Posted 2007-01-31 4:04 PM (#229 - in reply to #114)
Subject: Re: Coach #477 in Norway


Location: Illinois
(65.127.122.102)
Kjetil -

FMC #0004 was sold into Mexico in 1973 was in the NETHERLANDS in 2005.

The Coaches sold to foreign nationals originally were in Morrocco, Spain, and Saudi Arabia according to the FMC Corporation list that we have from the late 1970's.

The chance that you can find any of these FMC Coaches is remote for some could have been destroyed by Collision, Storm, Fire, or NEGLECT. Otherwise, the opportunity to find would be SLIM and NONE.

Hope that when you get ready to travel with FMC #0477 that you beat the odds and see one or more along the trail.


HAPPY TRAILS - Leslie Hoagland

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MCR
Posted 2007-02-02 9:06 AM (#232 - in reply to #229)
Subject: Re: Coach #477 in Norway


Location: Illinois
(65.127.122.102)
Kjetil-

The winter weather is finally getting to our locationj.

The wonderful gift parka is very warm.

Kjetil brouhght me a gift from NORWAY in the form of a thin , lightweight garment, hooded, with state of the art insulation.

Not only is it warm but it has a line drawing of FMC #0477 on the back.

SO, I will bring this garment to all the RALLIES - BUT, of course, I will not model this parka at the warm weather RALLIES.

THANKS AGAIN, Kjetil.

Leslie
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Duramaxer
Posted 2007-02-02 2:02 PM (#234 - in reply to #232)
Subject: Re: Coach #477 in Norway



Location: Oslo Norway
(85.166.240.176)		Leslie, I am happy we are keeping you warm, dry and comfortable in the bad weather. Helly Hansen makes some good high end winther clothing.

Looking forward to any pictures of a well dressed Leslie at the next rallie.

Kjetil
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Duramaxer
Posted 2007-02-16 1:43 PM (#265 - in reply to #114)
Subject: RE: Coach #477 in Norway



Location: Oslo Norway
(85.166.240.176)		The Dancing Queen is now in Europe!
She has been unloaded from the huge RoRo ship Aida in Bremerhaven, Germany and is now waiting for a place on smaller ship for last leg of voyage to Norway. She will arrive late next week according to current information. The journey from Germany to Norway takes less than 24 hours.

I can see from the news that some of you are having really bad weather over there, I hope you all are all right.
Stay cool ;-)

Kjetil
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MCR
Posted 2007-02-17 9:51 AM (#266 - in reply to #265)
Subject: Re: Coach #477 in Norway


Location: Illinois
(65.127.122.102)
Kjetil -

How interesting a ship name like THE DANCING QUEEN.

It appears you will have FMC #0477 at home in a short period of time.

YES, our warm winter has turned very cold for us these past three weeks. Several zero DEGREE NIGHTS AND ONE AT -11 DEGREES FARENHEIT. These temperatures pale when compared to your OSLO temperatures, I am sure.

When you require parts and service assistance you know whom to call !!!

HAPPY TRAILS - Leslie Hoagland - FMC #0938
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Duramaxer
Posted 2007-02-17 12:06 PM (#267 - in reply to #266)
Subject: Re: Coach #477 in Norway



Location: Oslo Norway
(85.166.240.176)		 Leslie
"The dancing Queen" is of course the coach not the ship. We will give her a new less stupid name as soon as she is sorted and starts to behave her selves down the road. ABBA- seveties- Sweeden don't you remember? Ask Chris he knows.

Oslo is not cold this year we have had -5 to -10 Celsius for a couple of weeks but now it is 0 Celcius. It is all normal just now, but this winter is by far the warmest ever recorded, it is also said to be warmest ever from what they are reading in the ice samples from deep down in glaciers dating thousands of years back.

Yes... I will make orders for parts, but you have not heard from me about this yet because I prefer to wait and make orders after looking things over first, that way we can save some money on shipping.

Kjetil
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BigRabbitMan
Posted 2007-02-17 12:41 PM (#268 - in reply to #114)
Subject: Re: Coach #477 in Norway



Location: Cottage Grove, OR
(71.143.7.182)		Be sure to continue taking pictures and posting them as "The Dancing Queen" arrives and transforms into the Regal Lady!
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MCR
Posted 2007-02-18 3:29 PM (#270 - in reply to #114)
Subject: Re: Coach #477 in Norway


Location: Illinois
(65.127.122.102)
Kjetil -

My joke about the DANCING QUEEN, I see, did not fly. Remember, as I told you, I have never appreciated ROCK music. It is now as it was THEN a non-entity.

Your comments about the current NORWAY winter combined with our COLD winter here and lower reported temperatures in the SOUTHERN HEMISPHERE make me say aloud again - THE environmentalists are giving we humans too much credit in this so called extraordinary global warming. The temperature gradient may be shifting from one area to another arund the GLOBE and We may be on the upslope of a current warming curve - BUT we have no temperature records more than 100-200 years which we can check on a date to date basis.

Yes, I completely understand parts order will be in mass to save shipping and bureaucratic costs.

Hopefully after this weeks warmup our cold spell will be HISTORY.


HAPPY TRAILS - Leslie Hoagland - FMC #0938
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Duramaxer
Posted 2007-02-24 8:18 AM (#278 - in reply to #114)
Subject: RE: Coach #477 in Norway



Location: Oslo Norway
(82.147.35.34)		#477 has now arrived and is held at the customs. On monday I will hopefully be able to get her bailed out.

Weather here is terrible also. The southern part of Norway has not seen this much snow in years. Last monday we were close to Stavanger in the west attending a Motocross training course and we went thru the south on our way home. Our GMC pickup broke a return fuel pipe and we decided to leave it and got on the last train they were able to get out of the area.

On wednesday a young girl was killed as she jumped out of a window on second floor because he snow was blocking the doors. The snow was so deep she could not find her way out and was foud suffucated. We should be able handle these conditions beut very heavy wind makes the snow pile up several meters high in a few hours. The door at the workshop where we left the GMC was over 4 meters high and the snow was piled up higher than that. Many public buildings are closed due to the emergency exits is blocked.

People might find comfort in beliving there is nothing wrong with the climate, but now I am shure this is not normal at all. Man made or not this is something we will have to learn to live with.

Condition here in the south-east is a lot better and I will be able to take the coach to the workshop on monday I think, I have 2 snowchains for the drive an one for steering, all brand new and made to fit the 8R 19,5 tyres. Will have to keep them tight so the rims dont get damaged. Also 4 new Euro H4 repalcement headlights has arrived so we will be able to see where we are going.

Hopefully I can post some pictures from the maiden trip on Norwegian roads.

Kjetil
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MCR
Posted 2007-02-25 4:50 PM (#280 - in reply to #114)
Subject: Re: Coach #477 in Norway


Location: Illinois
(65.127.122.102)
Kjetil -

Good to know that FMC #0477 is almost home.

If you do not have deep snow on the highway, you should not need chains. Chris and I were in the SOUTHWEST in late January 1990 and encountered 18 inch and more of snow on I40 west of Flagstaff, Arizona and had no trouble with our FMC on the highway and at fuel stop.

It was intemidating BUT we could not make the FMC Coach slide or lose traction.

Even with your unloaded coach you should have 9000 pounds on the rear drive wheels.

HAPPY TRAILS - Leslie Hoagland FMC #0477
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Duramaxer
Posted 2007-02-26 2:17 PM (#281 - in reply to #114)
Subject: RE: Coach #477 in Norway



Location: Oslo Norway
(85.166.240.176)		It is a great day!
#477 cleared customs today, and I drove her to a garage where som light repairs and cleaning up can be done before I take the coach home.

Weather was fine and it drove fine thru snow as Leslie said it would. The front brakes locked up even worse on snow but we made it ok.

Some picture of the coach and the damaged in tank fuel pipes on the second page of my #477 gallery.

Finally we can start working on the coach and seeing some progress.

Thank you all for your help, advises and motivation since the start of this project.

Kjetil
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MCR
Posted 2007-02-26 3:40 PM (#282 - in reply to #281)
Subject: Re: Coach #477 in Norway


Location: Illinois
(65.127.122.102)
Kjetil -

Happy to hear you drove the FMC away from customs house.

You will need to turn the brake drums and you will eliminate the front brakes grabbing.

Good luck with your project FMC.

HAPPY TRAILS - Leslie Hoagland - FMC #0938

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BigRabbitMan
Posted 2007-03-03 3:32 PM (#283 - in reply to #114)
Subject: Re: Coach #477 in Norway



Location: Cottage Grove, OR
(71.142.254.237)		Kjetil,
I enjoyed looking at the pictures you have posted. I am glad the driving conditions were good and you didn't need to use the chains. Just for comparison purposes, I have posted pictures of the "snow" that #1046 is experiencing here in Californa.
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RHerbert
Posted 2007-03-06 11:13 AM (#284 - in reply to #114)
Subject: RE: Coach #477 in Norway



Location: San Clemente, Ca.
(66.123.125.170)		Stephen,

That was quite a storm! How did you ever survive?

Best regards,

Ron
#621
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Duramaxer
Posted 2007-03-13 2:42 PM (#291 - in reply to #114)
Subject: RE: Coach #477 in Norway



Location: Oslo Norway
(85.166.237.73)		Time to update. Have less time to hang around on the internet these days.

Over here we are doing fine. #477 has had it’s initial clean up and it is nice to see some of the potential shining thru.Everything left in the coach was stolen and idiots have broken in to the passenger door and all the compartments even if the keys where in the ignition. The starting problems in NY was never the ignition switch or the fuel as claimed, it was a fuse loose in the socket and I found it as soon as I tried to start it at the customs.

We have been doing the cleaning up at my father in law’s workshop, because he has a garage big enough. Jannicke found a dead mouse when vacuuming the bathroom and there is a bird nest in the ventilation outlet on the roof. We had ourselves a good laugh and are happy the customs did not find it before us.

I made new stainless in tank fuel pipes and was able o sort out the fuel gauge sender. Inside the sender there is a small spring at the contactpoint and I changed this and glued the unit back together. The fuel tank is quite rusted inside so we will have to make a new stainless tank sooner or later. I have cleaned it out, and have a new FRAM racing fuel filter ready to be installed.

The issue on the grabbing front brakes is also fixed. The problem was never in the front but it was lack of brakes in the rear. A wrong spec part in the rear caused the rear brakes to gradualy have loose servo effect. We will have attention on the brake system still, but now we have controllable, balanced, powerful brakes.

I have converted the headlamps to Hella H4 units and it turned out fine. Good lights with hi and lo in both lamps, and no more sealed beam units to be changed. Lots of options on what bulb you want to have.

Next stop for the coach will be the fiberglass workshop to have some roof gelcoat cracks fixed and all the things on the roof taken off to bee sealed and all bolts and screws changes to stainless steel.
We also have to sort out the left front windshield that has almost popped out during the shipment. So when the coach is no longer leaking I can attend to the rest. The flooring and underbelly needs a lot of attention but I wanted to stop the leaking from the top first.

Best news is the engine! It was not damaged or seriously worn by all those miles on that rusty fuel and the lean running due to lack of fuel.
It starts at tickover and does not smoke at all. We know the carb is not at all perfect so the engine will be very good with new and proper adjusted carb. It does have some oil-leaks and is running slightly lean in this cold weather but over all I am very happy with the engine

Only one new picture in the gallery, lots of work to be done, then there will be time to show off in the galleries.

Cool runnings!
Kjetil


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Duramaxer
Posted 2007-03-27 3:38 PM (#298 - in reply to #114)
Subject: RE: Coach #477 in Norway



Location: Oslo Norway
(85.166.250.219)		Have posted some more foto's showing what is going on with the poor old coach. Sorry about the foto quality but my cellular is the only camera available.

Look to the gallery for any upates in the weeks to follow.

Kjetil
Locked on target!
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BigRabbitMan
Posted 2007-03-27 7:38 PM (#299 - in reply to #114)
Subject: Re: Coach #477 in Norway



Location: Cottage Grove, OR
(71.142.220.183)		I took a look at the new photographs. WOW! While I am sure mine is not near like yours, I am going to have to do some spot checking just to be sure.
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MCR
Posted 2007-03-27 7:59 PM (#301 - in reply to #299)
Subject: Re: Coach #477 in Norway


Location: Illinois
(65.127.122.102)
Stephen, etal -

Yes, all of the coaches have this rust problem coming from the inside out.

The early FMCs had fiberglass insulation and the late models had urea formaldehyde foam insulation.

Regardless, there was no vapor barrier which allows the moisture from inside the coach to collect on the inner side of the belly pan steel.

Our answer to this problem at MCR is to remove the steel bellypan, replace the rusted steel, shoot rigid urethane foam, and replace the belly pan.

The rigid urethane is its own vapor barrier and fills the cavity completely. I did my personal coach about 19 years ago and have reundercoated the belly pan about 3 years ago.

The many FMC Coaches on which we have replaced the belly pan have done well over the years.


HAPPY TRAILS - Leslie Hoagland - FMC #0938
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Duramaxer
Posted 2007-03-28 2:30 PM (#303 - in reply to #301)
Subject: Re: Coach #477 in Norway



Location: Oslo Norway
(85.166.237.191)		I agree Leslie, the lack of a vapor barrier is one of the weaknesses in the construction, but there are several more issues as I see it:

The foam used draws any moisture and holds water like a sponge. On #477 the wet insulation looked fine but when touched it turned to something like mud.

There is no ventilation. There is no was to make a large construction like this sealed 100% so any moisture will be trapped inside. Also changes in temperature will result in condensation also trapped. I will work out where to leave openings and vents for air to flow inside flooring for ventilation. Ideal would be to have a gap like 1/2" under the foam all the way but the steal beams restrict flow of air.

Any leakages around openings like luggage, air-condition, or stove access can end up in the floor construction.

Most of the steel is very poorly or not coated at all.

The plywood used seems not to be “waterproof” (marine grade) type. In reality there is no such thing as waterproof plywood ofcource but there are different types of wood and different kinds of resin/glue that gives more or less resistance to water.Plywood on 477 is delaminated also on dry places.

There are several places where there are openings to the outside letting water in. Most of them found in the front and under the sink, as far as I have seen.

The very heavy original carpet can hold very much moisture and take for ages to dry.

You might want to attend more or less to these and factors if you want your coach as dry as possible. Several of these factors would come to matter even in hot climate because of the condensation. If I had my interior completely removed I would have had pipes for running hot water in the floor, unfortunately I can not do this now for several reasons.

Kjetil
#477
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MCR
Posted 2007-03-29 8:41 AM (#304 - in reply to #303)
Subject: Re: Coach #477 in Norway


Location: Illinois
(65.127.122.102)
Kjetil -

The condensation is the reason we, at MCR, use the rigid urethane since it is only its own vapor barrier. By spraying this insulation we fill all the "knooks and crannies" making the belly pan complete insulation save for the cross structures.

Any vent you might want to add would be to the inside as ,otherwise, you would introduce exterior moisture. Although, I believe, that with the rigid urethane and the acid etch primer on the steel structure, the corrosion problem will at a minimum for 20 to 30 or more years.

We put all plumbing and propane lines thru their own draw tubes and plug foam those tubes to avoid introduction of moisture to the floor insulation via these passageways.

This system has worked quite well over the last 20 plus years as the few coaches that were torn down to install the drop belly tank system have faired quite well over the years.


HAPPY TRAILS - Leslie Hoagland - FMC #0938
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MCR
Posted 2007-03-29 9:05 AM (#306 - in reply to #304)
Subject: Re: Coach #477 in Norway


Location: Illinois
(65.127.122.102)
Kjetil -

I just showed your photos of the interior to Chris and it brings to mind that you will have to remove all the interior cabinets and walls or do as we have done on most coaches and remove the steel belly pan sheets and foam from below.

Further thought' when my FMC Coach was new it had a peculiar smell which I attributed to the plastic laminate and carpet.

BUT when I removed the belly pan from the coach the wet sections of the urea formaldehyde insulation had the same odor times one thousand.

Further note your structure looks good as compared to most that we have seen over the years especially those from the costal or high desert areas of NORTH AMERICA.

Would reccommend you replace cross structure when you reinsulate so that you will have no concern with structure viabilty.

Best Wishes - Leslie Hpagland - FMC #0938
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Duramaxer
Posted 2007-03-30 1:38 AM (#307 - in reply to #306)
Subject: Re: Coach #477 in Norway



Location: Oslo Norway
(81.191.132.96)		Yes Leslie, the whole interior is coming out, and I willl have a new bellypan all the way. Also new steel where needed.
I think if you know the smell if you have had it, it is like nothing else.

I was a bit frustrated about this at first but now I am feeling quite good about it, this repair will give the good dry "new" feeling to the interior of the coach, and one can newer regret what one has done proper. After all it will only add a couple of weeks to a allready long lasting project.

Kjetil

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MCR
Posted 2007-03-30 7:51 AM (#308 - in reply to #307)
Subject: Re: Coach #477 in Norway


Location: Illinois
(65.127.122.102)
Kjetil -

Good to hear of your total redo of the belly structure. Your FMC Coach will smell like the new floor, wall, and window treatments.

The smell of the wet urea-formaldehyde insulation is like no other odor I have experienced.

But if your FMC had had the fiberglass insulation of the original coaches then the damage would have been as severe with less odor.

HAPPY TRAILS - Leslie Hoagland - FMC #0938
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Duramaxer
Posted 2007-04-12 9:04 AM (#326 - in reply to #114)
Subject: RE: Coach #477 in Norway



Location: Oslo Norway
(85.166.237.191)		The coach has now been jacked up front and rear for a week. It is so nice to se the sidewalls getting straighter as from day to day. Just like Leslie has predicted.
The whole appearance of coach will benefit from this .The fiberglass under beltline is coming of completely, hopefully today Then we will then be able to check all joints for cracks and any misalignment. Steel to aluminum joints that can bee seen from inside has been done with special rivets (huck nuts?) but unsure if this is from original production or later repairs. We will let her stand jacked for quite some time before starting welding in the new reinforced floor structure and shear plates. Hopefully it will not take to many weeks. If we can not get frame to “negative sag” from just gravity we will have to finish the floor now and do the shear plating somewhere else where we can have her pulled down to get the “1 inch beyond straight” that we have hoped for. We take measurements from all points we find relevant and are quite sure we will get this right, even if we do not have any detailed instructions to follow.

How far forward is the shear-plate normally done on drivers side?

Steal is real, and I am really enjoying this part of the project! Working the suspension and steering later on will be much more fun also when we have a good solid frame construction. Some day I will go out racing passenger cars in this thing.

Kjetil

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MCR
Posted 2007-04-12 5:40 PM (#327 - in reply to #326)
Subject: Re: Coach #477 in Norway


Location: Illinois
(65.127.122.102)		Kjetil -

From experience, the steel floor stucture will not move if the bottom of the side beams are in the same plane.

The HUCK BOLTS were used only at RECALL done in front of rear wheels and on some entrance door structure.

The vertical aluminum spar to steel structure was done at time of BUILD with 3/16 inch pop rivets.

The side walls will straighten - IF you have placed jackstands at Front Suspension and frame at rear bumper.

The Shear Plate is best done all the way to drivers door so that no wave appears in the fiberglass panel.

If you will redo floor structure, flooring, and replace interior - this weight will help in straightening the side walls of your FMC.

Furthermore, if you would measure from beam under windows to frame from in front of rear wheels to rear of front wheel - maintaining the same dimension you will have straightened side wall at entrance door and completely between the wheelhouses.


HAPPY TRAILS - Leslie - FMC #0938
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RHerbert
Posted 2007-04-13 9:27 AM (#328 - in reply to #327)
Subject: Re: Coach #477 in Norway



Location: San Clemente, Ca.
(66.126.124.242)		Kjetil,

How about posting some pictures of the work in process on the forum?

Thanks,

Ron
#621
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Duramaxer
Posted 2007-04-13 4:03 PM (#329 - in reply to #328)
Subject: Re: Coach #477 in Norway



Location: Oslo Norway
(85.166.237.191)		I have posted pictures in the #477 gallery at this site, or did you mean I should have the pictures inside this thread?
Sorry about the picture quality but I have only the cam on my cellphone.

Thank you for you interest and feel free to make comments in the gallery also.

Today we have been cutting the materials for the floor stucture. Hopefully I can start on some welding this weekend.

Kjetil

Edited by Duramaxer 2007-04-13 4:23 PM
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MCR
Posted 2007-04-19 1:22 PM (#330 - in reply to #329)
Subject: Re: Coach #477 in Norway


Location: Illinois
(65.127.122.102)
Kjetil -

I looked at your latest photos.

You FMC underbelly structure looks great.

With the old and new structure cleaned and acid etch primed, the structure will appear as new.

In fact, better than new since you have added to the structure.

I believe the structure would have been stronger if you had ran the structural tubes laterally.


All the Best - Leslie
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Duramaxer
Posted 2007-04-19 4:16 PM (#331 - in reply to #330)
Subject: Re: Coach #477 in Norway



Location: Oslo Norway
(85.166.245.214)		Thank you Leslie.
That picture shows job only part done. Have made some updates in gallery on progress now.
Will revice a new beam tomorrow to replace the outer frame member all the way from wheel to wheel on drivers side. Have planned to cut out the bracets for vertical structure and weld these on to new member keeping it all aligned durig the replacement. This has taken some preparation and thinking for me to figure out but I think i have a good plan now.
Have found huck bolts and work done several places. Onely structural damage I have found so far is behind rear wheel close to the fuel tank. Looks strange and like someone has tryed to repair.

I Will send you a PM this weekend with some picures of damage, and ask for some advice for alignment and repair of the damage behind left rear.
Aslo ouside lower steel on both sides behind rear wheel has to be changed, I can run a knife traight thru it.Hoping to have time to do chemical crack testing on aluminium structure soon and look closer to drivers side when left side is fixed.

Have ordered galvanized plates for underbelly and high quality marine grade plywood for new floor.

You never know what you will find when you look under the skirts of an old lady!

Kjetil
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MCR
Posted 2007-04-21 8:53 AM (#332 - in reply to #331)
Subject: Re: Coach #477 in Norway


Location: Illinois
(65.127.122.102)
Kjetil -

Chris and I had some time to review your pictures of the underbelly structure and agree that your corrosion compared to most of the FMC Coaches is less.

BUT without the vapor barrier there always has to be interior corrosion between the plywood floor and the belly panning.

The 2 x 3 structure behind the rear wheels is always suspect due to location in the water slip stream of the dual wheels..

Also when you replace, double gusset all the 2 x 3 beams above and below the beam at the attachment to the engine cantilever frame members.

I believe you will find structural integrity on all the aluminum Superstructure. The only damage we have seen has been on coaches with diesel engine powertrains without shearplate addition. Cracks and broken welds have been noted on these ocassions.

Also the steel/steel pop rivets from Superstructue to Steel Frame have failed singly or fully on individual components.

That is why we, at MCR, replace 2 rivets per structural member with 1/4 inch HUCK BOLTS. Each of these HUCK BOLTS have a 5,000 pound shear rating and when properly sized as to length will not loosen.

Looking forward to any and all Questions.

HAPPY TRAILS - Leslie - FMC #0938
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BigRabbitMan
Posted 2007-05-13 7:19 PM (#338 - in reply to #114)
Subject: Re: Coach #477 in Norway



Location: Cottage Grove, OR
(71.142.236.24)		I have just looked at the latest pictures and you are certainly showing what kinds of repairs can be done if neccessary. I am just glad that what you are doing is not needed by my coach. Yes, a thorough inspection has been done. My remaining question is what grade/formula of steel are you using for the various members as there are untold different alloys of steel?
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MCR
Posted 2007-05-13 7:33 PM (#339 - in reply to #338)
Subject: Re: Coach #477 in Norway


Location: Illinois
(65.127.122.102)		Stephen -

Remember that you must look into the structure between the floor plywood and the steel bellypan to determine the amount of corrosion that has taken place.

On my personal FMC back some 19 years ago the exterior of the bellypan was bright metal while the interior was heavily corroded to the point that much of the bottom portion of the transverse structure was gone.

If the panning is intact then one can approximate the damage by determining the integrity of the floor structure.

BUT in the final anylasis - I can quarantee that there is corrorsion present, the only question will be how intensive the corrosion is. This is based on looking at this corrosion over the past 23 years on many FMC Coaches..



HAPPY TRAILS - Leslie - FMC #0938
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Duramaxer
Posted 2007-05-14 4:54 PM (#340 - in reply to #338)
Subject: Re: Coach #477 in Norway



Location: Oslo Norway
(85.166.225.77)		Stephen

I am not an expert in steel qualities and there is a wilderness of grades and standards to relate to.I let other i trust do the ordering after briefing them on the use.
The box tubing is used inside the outer frame members and in the rear of the wheels is 80x40x2 mm CroMo “higher grade” and the left frame member is 150x75x6 mm "normal construction steel" beam. Right side frame member is not yet changed but is likely to be changed also 125x80x6 mm (this is not absolutely necessary to change but the pure joy of knowing all the structure between wheels is new will make it worth the effort). The steel plate used for making battery compartments, vertical reinforcements in the rear and the new improved fixing point for upper structure is 4mm thick. I am sorry for not being able to give you a more specific translation on the steel quality and also for being on the metric system making it even harder to understand. I did not pay the extra money on having certificates issued.

The structure on #477 will be way stronger than original not only from the materials used, the profiles were originally thinner U-profiles and they were fewer. I have tried to make a layout that will support the upper structure a lot more than originally intended but not make it to rigid. The need for some flexibility is why I chose the CroMO tubing.
I will not know how well I have succeeded before we go on road but the all new steel with all new steel to aluminum joints that we now have sure has become a platform that is enjoyable to work on. The feelgood factor is very high and I am confident all this work will pay of in time. I have had the coach down of the jackstands a couple of times and I am sure one can feel the difference just from maneuvering in front of our house, when shifting into gear or just by entering in to the passenger door.
We are currently looking in to the shear plating. The coach sides are now 100 % straight on driver side and we will have it straightened last little bit needed also on passenger side when changing the outer member on that side. My guess is #477 would stay straight for many years to come now even without the shear plating but we will try to get it done to be absolutely sure. I just have get some coaching and practise on the alumium welding first.

I do not expect people to go as far as I am doing but I am having a hard time believing there are many coaches out there that could not benefit from some attention on the floor structure. I will make my bellypan detachable so I can inspect, change insulation and coat structure not if but when necessary in the future. I feel like I am starting to sound like some kind of “besserwisser”, that is not my intention. I just have not been forced to make any compromises on the quality of the restoration yet. When one is forced to make compromises then things really starts to get challenging and.
Tearing things apart and welding in a few hundred kilos of new steel does not demand much more than the materials, the tools and the time to do so.

#477 is not in focus like before over here since my oldest son (11) had a bad crash during a motocross practice a few weeks ago and got some facial injuries. He will be fine in time but his recovery is my main focus now and I am working less on #477.

When the function on the gallery is fixed I can upload picture of the latest progress if you like.

Cool runnings.
Kjetil
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BigRabbitMan
Posted 2007-05-14 9:54 PM (#341 - in reply to #114)
Subject: Re: Coach #477 in Norway



Location: Cottage Grove, OR
(71.142.236.24)		Kjetil,

My best wishes for your son's rapid recovery. Good to know that he will fully recover. My oldest son (now 41) raced motorcycles on hard surface tracks. He once laid a bike (Honda 750) down in a curve at about 85 mph (137 kmph). Other than a few broken ribs and general soreness, he was fine in time. He now drives a Pontiac GTO, which is built by Holden in Australia. It uses the Corvette running gear. It is his street car and is also used for autocross.

I don't doubt that my coach can use some floor struture work. By using a light and mirror a lot, but not all, of the underside was inspected. That said, some day I do intend to have the belly pan removed and any work needed done. Being a California coach, it has never been exposed to road salt, little rain and with the milder, dry climate condensation, while it can and will occur, is generally less than in most other areas. This is true of most but not all of California. I also am not a steel expert, but know that there are lots of choices As you have described what you have used, you should be good. It will be a solid coach that will last for your Grandchildren to enjory!
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Duramaxer
Posted 2007-05-27 6:24 PM (#351 - in reply to #114)
Subject: Re: Coach #477 in Norway



Location: Oslo Norway
(80.213.98.197)		All frame rebuild on #477 is now 99% completed. New pictures in the gallery.

Kjetil
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BigRabbitMan
Posted 2007-05-28 6:37 PM (#354 - in reply to #114)
Subject: Re: Coach #477 in Norway



Location: Cottage Grove, OR
(71.143.2.193)		Great pictures -- keep them coming.
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Duramaxer
Posted 2007-06-04 12:39 PM (#365 - in reply to #114)
Subject: RE: Coach #477 in Norway



Location: Oslo Norway
(80.213.98.197)		477 is not my lucky number these days.
As you might remember the left front windshield was not seated properly when we picked her up, and it gradually came more and more out during our travel in the US. Funny thing is at one point of our travel it in fact was seated, should have sold the thing then and left the country at that very moment.
I started looking into this today and it is quite obviously the front window “frame” is out of square. This is of course bad news and there has to be some structural damage or week spot. So.... now when looking up under the front left corner and down into the corner from the cut out surrounding the steering column one can see the steel in the corner is rusted and also broken in one place.
This is yet another obstacle to pass in the project. Maybe I should have seen this coming but the old bitch caught me off card on this one I am afraid. I had planned to move her to a different location soon to have the shear plating done, but I guess that will have to wait for a few more weeks.

I will post some pictures of the sorry sight when I have taken of the fiberglass front.

Kjetil
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hday
Posted 2007-06-05 12:14 AM (#366 - in reply to #114)
Subject: Re: Coach #477 in Norway


Location: Salem, Or
(71.59.135.81)		That is really, really sad!!!! Caveat emptor!!!!

Harry
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Duramaxer
Posted 2007-06-05 4:28 AM (#367 - in reply to #366)
Subject: Re: Coach #477 in Norway



Location: Oslo Norway
(81.191.132.96)		My frustration is about state of the coach and my own ignorance, not the deal or the seller!

Sorry if I was to be misunderstud on that.

I will have it fixed, my last posting was just ment to illustrate the frustration that will come on everybody some time during a project like this.

Kjetil
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MCR
Posted 2007-06-05 9:16 AM (#369 - in reply to #366)
Subject: Re: Coach #477 in Norway


Location: Illinois
(65.127.122.102)		Kjetil -

Remember there is no structure in the FMC above the windshield. The first structure is about 18 inches aft. On early coaches with sectioned headliners structure is at first division bow. I do not know but believe your FMC has unsectioned headliner.


BUT regardless, without the structure above the headliner the vertical walls at the front of coach are free to rack only held in place be the dash cowl structure, winshields, and fiberglass.

As I posted on the Yahoo site, I have seen FMC Coaches when driven thru gutter line into driveway that have racked so that lead pencil can be passed between windshield weatherstrip and fiberglass upper outer corner.

If you remove windshields and hold shield up in windshield cutout you can cut out fiberglass in tight areas. Then you can reinstall fiberglass. In fact, we have seen coaches that FMC cut fiberglass inside the penciled line resulting in too small of opening.

This racking of the structure is why silicone or urethane sealants will not keep windshields sealed since the racking breaks the seal.

In fact we have not sealed our larger windshield weatherstrips these last 20 years.
No leaks have been reported until weatherstrip cracks with age and exposure.

Also, if I understand correctly, you see rusting in the winshield area, BUT originally all the upper structure was aluminum. So if there is steel someone has been busy.

Your pictures show great progress on your structural improvements.

How is your Son recuperating???

HAPPY TRAILS - Leslie and FMC #0938
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Duramaxer
Posted 2007-06-07 4:36 PM (#379 - in reply to #114)
Subject: Re: Coach #477 in Norway



Location: Oslo Norway
(80.213.98.197)		Pictures of the stainless fuel tank in the gallery. Just need to trim the tube where the new sender is going in and fix some insulation on the outside. Also waiting for a new nice filler cap.
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MCR
Posted 2007-06-08 9:06 AM (#382 - in reply to #379)
Subject: Re: Coach #477 in Norway


Location: Illinois
(65.127.122.102)		Kjetil -

Your fuel tank is excellent design.

BUT how is your Son progressing???

Leslie
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Duramaxer
Posted 2007-06-08 1:11 PM (#384 - in reply to #382)
Subject: Re: Coach #477 in Norway



Location: Oslo Norway
(80.213.98.197)		Thank You Leslie.
Sorry for not answering your questions about Martin. He is back at school now and he is returning to normal life. The surgery to his teeth will go on for a while.
It is strange but after trying to learn some of the facial anatomy i realize the jaws and teeth of a man also serves the same purpose as the chrash zones on a modern passenger car.Something has to absorb the forces to save what is inside from fatal damage. Also i find some comfort in statistics saying these kind of injuries is far more common in alpine skiing and ice hockey than in motocross.

Weather in Oslo last two days; water in the fjord 69,5 F and air temp 86 F.
Are you coming over next year? I'll give a very fair price on rent of #477 if you like.

Kjetil
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MCR
Posted 2007-06-09 6:46 PM (#385 - in reply to #384)
Subject: Re: Coach #477 in Norway


Location: Illinois
(65.127.122.102)		Kjetil -

Wish I could come for your country along with Swizerland, Italy, Australia, and Chile are the only countries I would consider traveling thru.

But I said many years ago, if I can not drive my FMC there, I would not want to go. So it seems that Chile is the only one that I can drive thru from here in the States.

BUT, of course, I could consider Scandanavia with your generous offer - BUT it would not be the same as it would be with a FMC Coach that I have driven over 400,000 miles.

I am so glad to hear that Martin's health is improving.

All the Best to Martin, yourself, and the rest of your Family.

Leslie

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Duramaxer
Posted 2007-06-20 1:58 PM (#386 - in reply to #114)
Subject: RE: Coach #477 in Norway



Location: Oslo Norway
(85.166.225.182)		I have not found the motivation needed to start on the front structure problem yet. The aluminum for the sheerplating has not arrived but.......the aluminum parts for the rear came back from stripping and powdercoating this week. I have spent a silly amount of hours working on the finish of those parts. I am quite happy with the result. Pictures in the gallery.

stay cool
Kjetil
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MCR
Posted 2007-06-20 8:08 PM (#387 - in reply to #386)
Subject: Re: Coach #477 in Norway


Location: Illinois
(65.127.122.102)		Kjetil -

Could your engine compartment grilles have been done in a satin finish????

Leslie & FMC #0938
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Duramaxer
Posted 2007-06-21 12:13 AM (#388 - in reply to #387)
Subject: Re: Coach #477 in Norway



Location: Oslo Norway
(85.166.225.182)		Yes Leslie, it can be done in satin. I can have mine "satin" also, all I have to do is give them a few hours work with 1500 grit sanding.
K
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MCR
Posted 2007-06-21 8:43 AM (#391 - in reply to #388)
Subject: Re: Coach #477 in Norway


Location: Illinois
(65.127.122.102)		Kjetil -

The 1500 grit will not compromise the finish????

Leslie
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Duramaxer
Posted 2007-06-21 4:09 PM (#392 - in reply to #391)
Subject: Re: Coach #477 in Norway



Location: Oslo Norway
(85.166.225.182)		Your are right, that would be a compromice. If you want satin finish you should have them powdercoated satin from the start.
I had mine painted with gloss finish, but to get the “wetlook” finish like on the pictures I did sand them with water and 1200grit then 1500 before buffing (?) with some paste.
After the first buffing they were close to normal satin powder coat.I am not sure if I am pleased with the high gloss on the edges of the aluminum profiles but it is very easy to make and maintain some “brushed” finish if sanding with 800grit.
The whole process of my grilles has been; straightening where needed, chemical stripping, very light glass blasting (going to hard with sand will deform them), powdercoating, then top of the profiles sanded with 120 -250-320-400grit, then all with 1200-1500 grit, then the paste.
I must admit this was kind of over the top but it was fun to see how far I could take it. I hope to be able to document details and finish better in the future since I will have a new digital camera this weekend.

As always, I am having some trouble on technical terms when writing in your language. Please all of you, correct me when I use wrong words so I can improve my writing and be more accurate in my descriptions.

Kjetil
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MCR
Posted 2007-06-21 5:56 PM (#393 - in reply to #392)
Subject: Re: Coach #477 in Norway


Location: Illinois
(65.127.122.102)		Kjetil -

I think your language skills are fine - particularly since American is not your primary langauge.

It appears one could shave in the reflection from the grilles surfaces.

When you finish coach you will have a showpiece that the average viewer will not believe is a 1974 motor coach.

BUT go places and see sights - do not allow it to set in the garage to preserve its beauty.

You can always redo at a later date when time and mileage take its toll.

And always REMEMBER to take time to enjoy life before TIME takes YOU!!!!

HAPPY TRAILS - Leslie & FMC #0938
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BigRabbitMan
Posted 2007-06-21 7:20 PM (#394 - in reply to #114)
Subject: Re: Coach #477 in Norway



Location: Cottage Grove, OR
(71.143.0.130)		Kjetil,

I concur with Leslie as to your language skills. I like the "wet look" you have achieved. I am dealing with an engine situation, but when all of that is taken care of I plan to start working on the appearance items. You do such a good job I am following your work closely.
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BigRabbitMan
Posted 2007-07-31 7:08 PM (#406 - in reply to #114)
Subject: Re: Coach #477 in Norway



Location: Cottage Grove, OR
(71.142.246.73)		Kjetil,

While it has nothing to do with FMC's, I want you to know that I got my first taste of water from Norway. It was good water! I was at a meeting in San Diego over the weekend and they served a brand of water I wasn't familiar with. It was the Voss brand and I was advised it was from Norway. Hope all is well with you and your son.
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MCR
Posted 2007-08-01 7:42 AM (#407 - in reply to #406)
Subject: Re: Coach #477 in Norway


Location: Illinois
(65.127.122.102)		Kjetil -

Yes, do tell us how your son's health is progressing.

HAPPY TRAILS - Leslie & FMC #0938
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MCR
Posted 2007-08-02 9:10 AM (#410 - in reply to #407)
Subject: Re: Coach #477 in Norway


Location: Illinois
(65.127.122.102)		Kjetil -
Even thou your message shows on the billboard,I did not get your messgae. Please repeat.

Leslie
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Duramaxer
Posted 2007-08-02 6:48 PM (#411 - in reply to #410)
Subject: Re: Coach #477 in Norway



Location: Oslo Norway
(85.166.237.24)		Stehpen, Leslie and fellow owners.
Glad you liked your first taste of Norway Stephen! Voss is a place in west region of our country known for quite spectacular mountains and place often used for different extreme-sport events. Funny thing about the water exported on bottles fom Norway it is the very same vater we alll have in our houses. Guess we are lucky to have such good quality drinking water available at the kitchen sink. You shold come over here and you can have a bath in it ;-)

We have spent the last few weeks away from home and have had only sporadic access to the net.
Martin is has been recovering very fine. He is back like before, only a few teeth’s missing and some occasional pain in his mouth. He was scheduled to have some teeth transplanted this summer but there were some problems with this, so another approach will be taken in September. We have been motocross-riding, hiking, bicycling and canoeing in our vacation to get us all back in good shape. He is also gaining confidence and some good speed on his mx-bike.

Have not done much on 477 lately but the project is still in fokus and will be picking up the same pace as before now the vacation is ending. Will keep posting pictures and updates as before.

I am sorry to see you are still having challenges with your health Leslie. As you might have suspected I am not a reliogious man so I can not honestly put my selves among all those good people praying for your recovery, but I have you in my mind a lot during all my hours working on #477 and i really wish from the whole of my heart for you to be ok.

Cool runnings
Kjetil
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MCR
Posted 2007-08-02 9:45 PM (#412 - in reply to #411)
Subject: Re: Coach #477 in Norway


Location: Illinois
(65.127.122.102)		Kjetil -

Glad to hear of your son's recovery.

Nice that you have had time to rest and recover.

Thank You for your thoughts on my health.

HAPPY TRAILS - Leslie & FMC #0938
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Duramaxer
Posted 2007-08-06 4:04 PM (#415 - in reply to #114)
Subject: Re: Coach #477 in Norway



Location: Oslo Norway
(85.166.237.24)		Now I just wanted to share a little success with you all. Very often when seeing pictures from inside our coaches, the headliner does not look very nice. I got the same impression when entering some of the coaches at MCR in January. Same was the case on 477, the liner was yellow from age with a dull finish and quite a lot of scratches so I decided to try to do something about it now before installing the interior and without having to paint or cover it.
I wet sanded the areas with scratches first with 800-grit then the whole headliner was done with 1200grit. That left us with a clean even matt finish witch I buffed by machine using Autosol (chrome polish/gelcoat buffing). Then it was polished with Hempel Hard Wax boat polish.
It all turned out nice I think and it was fun to bring bask some of that old glory that must have been back in -73. Also the original gelcoat is easy to keep nice for years to come.

If you would like to give this a try yourselves make sure you mask off everything before starting and be sure there is no loose cables that can be caught in the machine. It is easier to get a good finish if you work in small areas ( can be marked up with a lead pencil or tape) and take lot of pauses because it is quite hard working with the arms over your head all the time. I spent 3 evenings on doing the front half of the coach. If you leave out the sanding you would still get results with just the buffing but if you want that easy maintenance nice shine you should spend some time sanding. The layer of gelcoat #477 was thick but you need to take some care not to sand thru it of course.

Just ask if anyone would needs any advice on this, I’ll be glad to help.

Pictures in the gallery.

I'm back on track!
Kjetil
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MCR
Posted 2007-08-07 7:31 AM (#416 - in reply to #415)
Subject: Re: Coach #477 in Norway


Location: Illinois
(65.127.122.102)		Kjetil -

Good to hear you are back to work on FMC #0477.

Your headliner was fiberglass - Correct?

Earlier coaches had plastic headliners.

So beware owners if you want to refinish as to which material your FMC has.

HAPPY TRAILS - Leslie & FMC #0938
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Duramaxer
Posted 2007-08-09 6:54 AM (#417 - in reply to #416)
Subject: Re: Coach #477 in Norway



Location: Oslo Norway
(81.191.132.96)		Good point Leslie.

Our coach has a gelcoat covered fibreglass two pc liner. #477 is produced november 73.

K-man
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MCR
Posted 2007-08-09 8:29 AM (#418 - in reply to #417)
Subject: Re: Coach #477 in Norway


Location: Illinois
(65.127.122.102)		K-man -

I believed your FMC #0477 had a fiberglass headliner - BUT with all the chemo treatments I have to double-think everything.

Do you have about 10 to 12 hours labor in redoing the headliner in the the front half of the coach??? I assume that you found the paint layed down well on the fiberglass.

As always your new pictures are great stots.

HAPPY TRAILS - Leslie & FMC #0938

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Duramaxer
Posted 2007-08-28 4:36 PM (#429 - in reply to #114)
Subject: Re: Coach #477 in Norway



Location: Oslo Norway
(85.166.238.114)		Last few weeks I have been able to focus on the coach rebuild again.
New stainless fuel tank is in. Fiberglass skirts and engine grilles in the rear is back on, all the wires for the lights in the rear is new and I have started rebuilding the bedroom.
Pictures say more than words so I have posted some pictures as usual. There has been some talk about removal of the rear shelf and insulation of this area so I have tried to illustrate how this was done on #477. I think newer coaches with air-condition in the rear and insulation inside will be different in some way.
I have ordered some industrial spray on insulation (heat and sound) and will also use Armaflex like in the rest of the coach.

50% of the pop rivets in the rear aluminum interior sheeting was loose, this tells me things are very much alive back there and this also tells me I will benefit from having the planned sheer plating done, even if we are talking about a low milage gasser. Replaced all pop rivets I could see and added some a few places.

More to come as work progresses. Comments in the gallery welcome as always.

Kjetil


Edited by Duramaxer 2007-08-28 4:40 PM
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MCR
Posted 2007-08-28 5:26 PM (#430 - in reply to #429)
Subject: Re: Coach #477 in Norway


Location: Illinois
(65.127.122.102)		Kjetil -

Excellent report.

Your finding broken pop rivets on a low mileage coach (42,000 miles) accentuates - what I have told owners for years in that the FMC coach structure is in a state of flex.

If 1.75 x 3 inch aluminum box beam were used in the engine compartment structure, the coach structure will stiffen. Also replace the 0.75 x 3 inch
c-channel structure to the left and right of back window with 1.75 x 3 inch aluminum box beam will add to coach structure rigidity. The rigid uretahne foam binds and strengthens the structure more than one would ever expect.

On FMC Coaches that we have been allowed to do this, I swear I can feel this coach structure stiffness while driving down the road. But after driving the FMC Coaches in excess of 900,000 miles, I have a "feel" for the differences.

Your FMC Coach will be the "TALK of the TOWN" when completed.

Leslie
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MCR
Posted 2007-09-06 6:32 PM (#433 - in reply to #430)
Subject: Re: Coach #477 in Norway


Location: Illinois
(65.127.122.102)		Kjetil -


Still looking Gooood!!!!

All the irregularities that you have found are nothing new to us after years of teardowns.

BUT the FMC Motor Coach is still quite the well built coach. Good - But not perfect.

HAPPY TRAILS - Leslie & FMC #0938
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Duramaxer
Posted 2007-09-07 1:53 AM (#434 - in reply to #433)
Subject: Re: Coach #477 in Norway



Location: Oslo Norway
(81.191.132.96)		Thank you Leslie.

The FMC 2900r is a beautifully engineered coach and irregularities found is common I guess on anything not mass produced. Add that to the age of my coach and the fact that it has been standing unused for so long and it all makes sense. If the coach had been produced in lager numbers for a longer time with the same level of ambition then it might have been perfect.

But the FMC Motorcoach was not mass produced because it was not produced for the masses!

I am quite happy with the progress on #477in the last few weeks, and I am working hard now to get as much as possible done before winter really kicks in mid November over here.
I am Currently just waiting for some more of that Armaflex insulation before I can bring pictures of a fully redone on insulated bedroom ready to have the interior put back in. I have to have this done now before taking of the front because there is simply not any more storage room in my garage, I need to get some interior back in to the coach.

Will travel 1100 km to Stavanger on the west-coast and back this weekend, to pick up that Honda generator I have bought. I hope my GMC pickup and its Duramax engine will not let me down for the third time during a long travel this summer. I have had had so much trouble with the injectors leaking diesel into the oil. All injector have now been changed at least once and I hope it is ok now. Since mine is a GMC and not a Chevy I am not covered by extended warranty issued from Norwegian GM importer. Good thing injectors were improved on later engines.

Kjetil


Edited by Duramaxer 2007-09-07 1:57 AM
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MCR
Posted 2007-09-07 9:04 AM (#435 - in reply to #434)
Subject: Re: Coach #477 in Norway


Location: Illinois
(65.127.122.102)		Kjetil -

I have said for many years now that if the FMC Coach had been produced for all these years just how marvelously it could have evolved.

What year is your GMC Duramax???

And how many kilometers on this engine???

And have the injectors been the only problem???

I have always liked the Duramax engine BUT have wondered about Durability in application such as the FMC Coach at 20 to 22,000 Gross Combined Weight category.

Some of the late model pickup owners operating at the 22,000 GCW have told me of difficulties that I wonder if these difficulties are prevalent with the Duramax.

Hope your trip this weekend is uneventful.

HAPPY TRAILS - Leslie & FMC #0938
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Duramaxer
Posted 2007-09-07 10:32 AM (#438 - in reply to #435)
Subject: Re: Coach #477 in Norway



Location: Oslo Norway
(85.166.238.114)		I have answered in the thread that Big Bunny Boy has going on engine conversion for his fine coach.
Diesel really is off topic with #477

Kjetil

Edited by Duramaxer 2007-09-07 10:32 AM
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BigRabbitMan
Posted 2007-09-10 10:59 PM (#443 - in reply to #438)
Subject: Re: Coach #477 in Norway



Location: Cottage Grove, OR
(71.143.9.59)

Duramaxer - 2007-09-07 10:32 AM .... Big Bunny Boy ....... Kjetil

I like that!!!

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Duramaxer
Posted 2007-09-25 8:30 PM (#446 - in reply to #114)
Subject: Re: Coach #477 in Norway



Location: Oslo Norway
(83.109.153.82)		Time for a short update.................
I have been able to make some progress in last few weeks also. Bedroom is almost done and it feels so nice having tings going back in to the once empty coach. It’s time consuming and not very spectacular all this work on the inside, but it will pay off in the long run.

All interior is epoxy-coated on the back and inside and finally I can say the smell from age, mice and moisture is 100% gone.
By now I guess I have added 30-40 meters of plastic piping. Running cables for extras like entertainment system and back up camera can be done completely hidden if we ever get to that.

I will have to work very hard to get the main flooring and all the larger parts of the interior done the next two months, have to have that done before winter kicks in over here.
There is a chance we can find space for the coach among the boats inside my friends fiberglass-workshop during the winter. If so, I think I can promise a totally restored new gelcoat finish before next summer. We have been discussing some reinforcements to the roof also, I would like it to be solid enough to walk all over and it should be able to hold some centimeters of snow if we are going to use the coach in wintertime. I really think the roof is on the weak side as it is now and expect leakage to be a constant returning problem if we do not reinforce just a little before putting on new gelcoat.

It feels a bitts range to have done this much by now but not yet attending to the driveline, steering, suspension and so on. Doing thing in this order will make the project have better end better progress since the most labor consuming work is done first.

I have added a few new pictures from some of the work on cabinets in the gallery. More to come next week when the bedroom is finished. Next up is the bathroom.

Have fun

Kjetil
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Duramaxer
Posted 2007-11-09 8:09 AM (#452 - in reply to #114)
Subject: Re: Coach #477 in Norway



Location: Oslo Norway
(81.191.132.96)		We are still making progress on the rebuild of the coach, but as always thing are going slower than I want. Winter has arrived but still no snow at my place. Since the coach is sitting outdoors the cold weather is making things a little more complicated, and working on it a little less comfortable.
Have not found any place to store the coach inside during the winter but I’m still hoping.

As you know my ambition is to have the coach back in gelcoat finish. I prefer gelcoat for several reasons; it was originally gelcoated, with gelcoat any damage in the fiberglass can be spot repaired, stripping the paint and most or all of the old gelcoat then applying new gelcoat makes the fiberglass parts stronger than new and in the end a well prepared gelcoat surface has a shine that is hard to beat. But the difference in labor and material cost compared to paint is huge.

The parts done so far on #477 is the rear lower skirts, the front passenger side storagedoor an the passenger door.

The prosses stats with stripping paint and most of original gelcoat with 60 grit. Any damages, cracks, drilled holes or weak spots is repaired with fiberglass/polyester before two or three layers of gelcoat is sprayed on. Many does not realize gelcoat can not be sprayed to finish, when sprayed on an open surface it ends up wiyh a quite poor surface very much like the peel on a orange. When boats and parts made of gelcoated fiberglass are produced the finish is the mirror of the finish form that is used.
To make a shiny surface on resprayed surfaces the finish has to be “worked” in to the part.
Dry sanding 280 – 500 Wet sanding 800 – 1000 – 1200, Machine buffing with Autosol twice , Machine buffing with Hempel twice then hand polished. From start to end we have at least11 processes done. And as always if we skip or do a poor job on any of these the processes the result can not be perfect.
The good thing is the gelcoat gets a deeper and better shine for every time it is buffed and polished. Maintaining the surface for decades to come is only a matter of keeping it waxed.

If I will manage to do the whole coach before next summer is yet to be proven, and I know for sure the hours spent will be a forever well kept secret.

I will upload pictures in the gallery soon showing my friend and fiberglass master Kristian doing the passenger door and trying to learn me some tricks of the trade. The lead pencil marks is used to keep track of what surface is covered and it shows the grade of surface as you work over it. You get kind of “snowblinded” from looking at the white surfaces for hours.

Stay cool
Kjetil
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MCR
Posted 2007-11-09 9:55 AM (#453 - in reply to #452)
Subject: Re: Coach #477 in Norway


Location: Illinois
(65.127.122.102)		Kjetil -

Always good to hear of your progress with FMC #0477.

Hope that you find interior storage space for your FMC.

HAPPY HOLIDAYS - Leslie & FMC #0938
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Duramaxer
Posted 2008-01-05 7:26 PM (#459 - in reply to #114)
Subject: Re: Coach #477 in Norway



Location: Oslo Norway
(83.109.155.136)		Happy new year to everyone.

There has bee quite a while since last update but we are still going strong over here. The winter conditions is slowing things down a little since the coach is still parked outside our house and it just is not as pleasant working outside these days.

We have made a new stainless dual exhaust using the Edelbrock 304 Series chambered mufflers. I liked the idea of mufflers without packing. We also welded in a flexible “compensators” on each pipe to take some stress of the cast iron manifolds and reduce resonance. I decided on 2 ½” mufflers but we used metric industrial piping so we had to weld new intakes on the mufflers to make everything fit together, and the pipes are something in the middle between 2 1/2” and the original. We crimped the tube to avoid an edge at the flange connecting to the manifold. System is welded together from some 13-15 pieces each side by someone at the hydraulics-workshop with far better welding skills than I have. The pipes came out perfect. Decided to keep it simple and did not make a crossflow connection. If I want to I can add that later.
I have been outside in the snow today to put on the new exhaust and have made some temporary hangers and exact measures for permanent good fixtures. I will have to wait until the genset is installed before finishing this permanently.
I started the old lady and I am very pleased with the sound . These heavier gauge pipes does not have the “pinging” sound that I often do not like on stainless systems. The tailpipes are not finished yet they are 4” round flared ones. The pipe from the muffler will be drilled before welding on the tailpipes and I expect some noise reduction from that also.

Tomorrow I will try to prepare the coach to be driven to the fiberglass workshop, it is supposed to go in there on Tuesday but weather is terrible now and might make that transport impossible. As you know I have driven her in the snow before but now we have had a foot of wet snow in a couple of hours so this might be another weather challenge for team #477 if it keeps on snowing.

Stay cool
Kjetil
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MCR
Posted 2008-01-07 8:52 AM (#460 - in reply to #459)
Subject: Re: Coach #477 in Norway


Location: Illinois
(65.127.122.102)		Kjetil -

Good to hear that you are progressing with FMC #0477.

Hope you make you trip to fiberglass facility.

HAPPY NEW YEAR - Leslie & FMC #0938
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Duramaxer
Posted 2008-01-09 1:08 PM (#461 - in reply to #460)
Subject: Re: Coach #477 in Norway



Location: Oslo Norway
(83.109.149.33)		Thank you Leslie.
Today I drove the coach with no problems to the workshop, and it is parked inside with the boats. The coach feels different down the road and I think it is not only because of it beeing lighter but also the stronger chassis and structure. It feels like the rear is no longer "steering" the coach like before. Can't wait to have the plating done also. Then we can start working on the alignment and rebuild of suspension and steering.

My friend who ownes the place is a bit worried about the amount of work it is going to take to complete this "back to gelcoat" project. But as always I am a beliver and i'm shure it can be done, but I know it will take a few months and a lot of effort.


Kjetil


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MCR
Posted 2008-01-10 11:23 AM (#462 - in reply to #461)
Subject: Re: Coach #477 in Norway


Location: Illinois
(65.127.122.102)		Kjetil -

Yes, as you strengthem structure you will feel the difference.

And the gelcote renewal will be very time consuming but ultimately worth the effort.

All the Best - Leslie & FMC #0938
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BigRabbitMan
Posted 2008-01-17 11:43 PM (#463 - in reply to #114)
Subject: Re: Coach #477 in Norway



Location: Cottage Grove, OR
(71.142.230.140)		At some point, I also want to renew the gelcoat on my coach but that is after some other significant projects.
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MCR
Posted 2008-01-18 7:20 AM (#464 - in reply to #463)
Subject: Re: Coach #477 in Norway


Location: Illinois
(65.127.122.102)		Stephen -

A less expensive stop gap would be to clear coat the entire coach to preserve the gelcoat until the major restoration.

I have thought about this but fear I have waited too long.

HAPPY TRAILS - Leslie & FMC #0938
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Duramaxer
Posted 2008-01-18 4:42 PM (#465 - in reply to #464)
Subject: Re: Coach #477 in Norway



Location: Oslo Norway
(83.109.129.214)		We have made ok progression on the body rebuild, today we laminated one half of the roof.
The roof is looking fine so far and I am really looking forward to the day I am going to bring some chairs up there and serve ice cold refrechements to the guys who has been helping me.

Thing are very intensive the days because the coach is taking up space in the workshop wich is supposed to earn money so I will not write to much in detail but i will keep on posting the pictures as we go.
Please comment, ask questions and keep on following me as alwas because it helps keeping me focused and motivated.

Have to go knock some polyester of my sneakers and have them ready for another leg of this rebuild maraton tomorrow.

Kjetil
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MCR
Posted 2008-01-20 4:40 PM (#466 - in reply to #465)
Subject: Re: Coach #477 in Norway


Location: Illinois
(65.127.122.102)		Kjetil -

Your photos show you are accomplishing great rebuild.

Can not wait to see your new gelcoat.

Best Wishes - Leslie & FMC #0938
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Duramaxer
Posted 2008-03-04 3:17 PM (#519 - in reply to #114)
Subject: Re: Coach #477 in Norway



Location: Oslo Norway
(83.109.150.102)		Finally we have sprayed the new roof.
It feels so good to have reached this point, and we are ready to start building the finish on this solid new roof.

Pictures in the gallery.

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MCR
Posted 2008-03-05 3:30 PM (#520 - in reply to #519)
Subject: Re: Coach #477 in Norway


Location: Illinois
(65.127.122.102)		Kjetil -

After viewing your photos and reading your comments, you must have sprayed a heavy gelcoat.

Here at MCR, we spray a thinned gelcoat that requires little or no sanding when PVA is removed.

In fact, many tell us that gelcoat can not be sprayed unless into mold.

BUT we have sprayed gelcoat for more than 25 years.

Is your son's health 100% at this time???

All the Best - Leslie
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Duramaxer
Posted 2008-03-16 5:37 PM (#522 - in reply to #520)
Subject: Re: Coach #477 in Norway



Location: Oslo Norway
(83.109.150.102)		Leslie
This gelcoat we are using is a gelcoat ment for spraying. There is also available another quality that is ment for applying by hand (rolled or by brush).

If one can spray this gelcoat on a open surface and have good finnish that is not known to anyone over here.
"Our" gelcoat is simply polyester with color pigment, and a few other addetives is guess. The point of using this on a fiberglass constuction like a boat or the fmc-body is that the material of top layer then will share a lot of caracteristics with the construction since it is the same material, polyester.
If you have gelcoat that you can spray, is it made from a epoxy base?

My son is doing fine, thank you. Teeth issue is not yet solved but that will be ok sometime this year.
I hope you and yours are fine also.

All the best
Kjetil



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MCR
Posted 2008-03-17 4:15 PM (#523 - in reply to #522)
Subject: Re: Coach #477 in Norway


Location: Illinois
(65.127.122.102)		Kjetil -

We take the commercially available gelcoat and thin to heavy paint consistancy with methyl ethyl keotone.

This sprays well and we apply a coat of PVA so that celcoat will cure.

After it cures you can sand to blend.

Leslie
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Duramaxer
Posted 2008-03-17 5:08 PM (#524 - in reply to #523)
Subject: Re: Coach #477 in Norway



Location: Oslo Norway
(83.109.150.102)		Leslie-
PVA is that Poly Vinyl Acetat/ Poly Vinyl Alcohol ?

The gelcoat you are spraying does it not have any addetive to make it cure blended into it before spraying?

When spraying thinner layers than we did on the roof we get a finnish close to orange peel, it that same as you get or are you doing better?

Kjetil
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MCR
Posted 2008-03-18 12:23 PM (#525 - in reply to #524)
Subject: Re: Coach #477 in Norway


Location: Illinois
(65.127.122.102)		Kjetil -

PVA is Poly Vinyl Alcohol. It sprays on with the alcohol evaporating leaving the vinyl film. This allows the cure since the gelcoat is air inhibitive.

I should think that the additive you refer to might cause more of the orange peel effect.

You get a very fine ripple or orange peel. The more experience you accumulate the less orange peel you would experience.

Leslie
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BigRabbitMan
Posted 2008-10-17 11:16 PM (#562 - in reply to #114)
Subject: Re: Coach #477 in Norway



Location: Cottage Grove, OR
(71.142.225.46)		Kjetil,

I have reviewed the photo album for the body work. Absolutely SUPERB!! I noticed that you have eliminated the air vent at the passenger's and driver's feet. It does greatly improve the appearance. Any concern about the lack of ventilation options or are you just plan on running the Air Conditioners as needed. In your location, I realize that cold is more of a concern than heat!! All of the metal work looks superb as well.

I am looking forward to the continuation of the rebuilding project.
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Duramaxer
Posted 2008-10-18 4:24 AM (#563 - in reply to #562)
Subject: Re: Coach #477 in Norway



Location: Oslo Norway
(83.109.157.206)		Thank you Stephen!
Yes, it looks a bit cleaner without the vents. Mine where rusted and leaking also.
Lack of ventilation might be an issue, but it’s quite simple to put air vents in the front inside wall under the dash on both sides. I have seen pictures of different windows up front that looked nice also.
I am not sure if the defroster is good enough in cold moist weather either, so I might have to find improvements for this later.

Right now the coach has no air-condition at all. The 110v units had to go because of the weight, size and the fact we are converting to 230v. The auto air condensers are gone to but I might put one or both condensers up front like on later coaches.
With our climate like you say, and the very improved floor, wall and roof insulation on #477 I think that auto ac for the dash and one roof mounted or central 230v unit will be sufficient. Modern central unit would be my first choice it would keep the roofline clean, and the original roof condenser scoop might be converted to a storage compartment without changing the original appearance.
I wish #477 had a heater in the rear inside like later models but

I often have to live with things for quite a long time before deciding on modifications. There are always so many pro’s and con’s to consider. This is sometimes frustrating but I usually enjoy this process almost as much as the final result.

The marker light base curve was not optimal for the roof but close enough. I am confident this will not leak with the foam gaskets and butyl sealant.

Stay cool.
Kjetil
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BigRabbitMan
Posted 2008-10-23 2:15 AM (#565 - in reply to #114)
Subject: Re: Coach #477 in Norway



Location: Cottage Grove, OR
(71.142.225.46)		I think it is best to "live with something for awhile" before making changes as well. What sometimes seems as a great idea at first, changes later.

I agree that the auto AC and one roof mount will be plenty for your location. As to the front side windows, I am going to be changing my single pane window on the passenger side to one with the slider like you have. When traveling, that little slider makes a good difference in letting in fresh air. On my coach there was no vent in the door on the driver side and no little slider on the passenger side. I can tell you that the slider works better than the vents as installed.

I have ordered the red makers from TheTailLightKing so I will have a full set of new lights to put on. I think that with the gasket plus butyl sealant it will be fine. I also have some butyl sealant for when I get to that project.

Will you be putting the luggage rack back on top of the coach or is this something you are going to wait and see? It looks sleek without the rack.
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Duramaxer
Posted 2009-05-12 6:24 PM (#598 - in reply to #114)
Subject: Re: Coach #477 in Norway



Location: Oslo Norway
(84.49.216.29)		Dear friends!
After a period of having to sort out a few things in my life an not having the motivation to continue the project of restoring #477, I have decided to.................. get my head out of my ass!! and keep on pushing towards my original goals for the coach.
I will be running a somewhat tighter budget and will never again want to spend those insane amount of hours each day or week as before, but we will see progress.

Will get back to posting pictures soon. I am currently rewiring the whole coach and I will finish the instrument cluster this week.

Stay Cool
Kjetil
#477
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BigRabbitMan
Posted 2009-05-13 12:57 AM (#599 - in reply to #114)
Subject: Re: Coach #477 in Norway



Location: Cottage Grove, OR
(71.142.232.38)		Good to hear from you! Hopefully, all will be positive in the end and you will have a great coach to enjoy as well.
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Duramaxer
Posted 2009-05-13 8:12 AM (#600 - in reply to #599)
Subject: Re: Coach #477 in Norway



Location: Oslo Norway
(193.212.109.62)		Thank You Stephen
I feel good about picking this up again, I own it to all those who has helped me so far also.

I am really nor sure if I will put the rack and aircondenser cover back up on the roof. You are right he roofline is very nice as it is now. I have brand new jabsco search light laying around but I will not put it on if i go with this "clean" look. I have been thinking of putting my one needed condeser up under the front and a central air instead of a roof mounted unit.

I used some clear skateboard griptape where the original antislip structure was on the roof, I needed somethimg because this roof is extremly slippery now. This turned out very nice.

I'm back
K
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