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Disc or Drum brakes for FMCs ?
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hemi354az
Posted 2019-09-20 5:05 PM (#6874)
Subject: Disc or Drum brakes for FMCs ?


Location: Scottsdale, Aridzona
(68.2.104.9)		FMC A & J Models came with Drum Brakes.There were 874 produced. Zillions(?) of miles have been put on FMCs with Drum Brakes.
FMC Transit/Buses came with Disc Brakes. There were 132 produced. Miles on Transit Buses ?
FMC Club Models came with ??? Brakes. There were 18 produced. Miles on C Models ?
FMC M Models came with ??? Brakes. There were 22 produced. Miles on M Models ?
FMC for NASA came with ??? Brakes. There were 4 produced. Miles on NASA Models ?
There were 1050 FMCs produced according to the Coach Data Base on this Website. Click on it at the top of THIS page.

Over the years several A & J Models have had their brakes changed from Drum to Disc Brakes on all for corners. How many ? I don't know.
Les Hoagland (RIP) at MCR did Drum to Disc Conversions. But there may have been others.
FMC #708 has Disc Fronts and Drum Rears. Are there any others that have Disc/Drum setups ?

Disc Brakesa were used on the FMC Transit/Buses for very high cycles of STOPS, and for ease and minimum time to change pads.
The Disc Brake Components seem to be some sort of mystery or secret as few, if any at all, know what "parts" were used in the Transit/Buses, or where to source what "part numbers", and do not seem inclined to share that information on any Website that I am aware of . . . but there are LOTS of things that I am not aware of !
Other than "scrapped" FMC Transit/Buses there are no known "disc Brake Systems" that can be "fitted" to the FMC. Wonder where all those "scrapped" Buses are ??? Melted down into Bangladesh Reconstituted ReBar ?

Are Disc Brakes needed on a FMC ?
That is NOT a $64 Dollar question. It may be a several $1,000 Dollar question . . . if you think you need Disc Brakes on your FMC that does not already have them.

Will the Drum Brakes safely stop a "regular" FMC 2900R, under "regular" driving in town, and on trips to GrandMa's, where ever she lives ? Seems so.
Whose Drum Brake FMC 2900R has the most miles on it ? Stephan #1046 ? Jim Woestman's ? Denny Shewmake's ? Barney's #801 ? Harry Day's #400 ? Greg's #708 ? Fitz's #301 ? How many miles on YOURS ?
There are many references to the FMC Drum Brakes, the part numbers, sources, sometimes prices, maintenance and service tips, bleeding , adjusting, cursing . . . etc. on this and the Yahoo FMC Websites, and the Service and Parts Manuals on Kjetil's FMC Website (THANKS Kjetil !).

References for Disc Brakes ? Not anything useful except a few pictures . . . what ya' got ?
What Master Cylinder and/or Hydrovac(s) does the Disc Brake System take ? Any Check Valves anyplace ?
Can Disc Brakes be adapted to the FMC today ?
Does your FMC have Disc Brakes ? Please add that info to the Coach Data Base.

What do you think ? Drum or Disc for your FMC ?
Me ? DRUM ON !
Lou #120



Edited by hemi354az 2019-09-20 5:15 PM
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5Dollar
Posted 2019-09-20 6:59 PM (#6875 - in reply to #6874)
Subject: Re: Disc or Drum brakes for FMCs ?


Location: Bethune, SC
(96.45.100.131)		Lou,

Thanks for the great write-up on FMC brakes.

My first FMC thought was to determine a way to convert to disk using either later Ford or GMC heavy truck hardware. This idea soon revealed its absurdity. After being convinced of my mortality by 10 1/2 hours of open heart surgery, I figured there was a better use of my time.

I grew up as a farm boy, so I have worked on every thing that was mechanical on a farm. In the late 50's and early 60's, the stuff I worked on was mainly drum brakes. Farm trucks, if driven at reasonable speeds, even overloaded, could stop in reasonable distances with 4 wheel drum brakes.

Those who have found disk parts have the ability to produce a disk system will probably spend almost as much time doing that as others do supporting drum systems. I am not sure how much better the disk systems will be. As a rule, disks are superior. The question is how well will the systems be balanced - optimum components have questionable availability.

A friend of mine in vintage racing got a real lesson on a vehicle as a balanced system. He had a Lotus Elite that was a work of art. I was at his hauler when a tire supplier came by. He said he had a new 'sticky' tire that would be perfect the Elite. I urged him not to even consider them. The entire suspension system should be considered. A few weeks later at Mid-Ohio, his young driver convinced him he really needed these tires. He did not make a complete lap. Tires caused the suspension to fold under the car at speed in a tight turn. $45,000 later, after the loss of a season, he was back at the track with a much more appropriate set of tires.

I just think that unless you can get a complete setup for a disk system, you may be having results you will not be pleased with. That said, if you have enough money, any brake systen may be your universe.

Henry

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andy1canada
Posted 2019-09-20 8:35 PM (#6876 - in reply to #6874)
Subject: RE: Disc or Drum brakes for FMCs ?


Location: Victoria, BC. Canada
(108.172.101.233)		Amen Henry! Thanks for chiming-in and thanks Lou for starting this thread anew. Hey: Lou-anew... that rhymes!

Not much more important than being able to stop and yes, I hear you Henry on the parts availability thing. That's why an exhaust-brake (Pacbrake) will be integral to my disc-brake swap, which I will tackle next year after the engine & trans is done.

They say wear & tear on service brakes becomes negligible when you run a good exhaust brake.

Would be swell if someone could come up with a good disc-brake alternative for our coaches, be that by identifying exactly what the OEM FMC Transit brake parts were comprised of, or, a more suitable affordable alternative.

How long since you heard someone use the word - 'swell'?

Terry
#846
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LCAC_Man
Posted 2019-09-21 8:04 AM (#6878 - in reply to #6876)
Subject: Re: Disc or Drum brakes for FMCs ?


Location: Oceanside, CA
(172.10.134.245)		I agree that "if" you go down the path of converting to disc then you have to take a systemic approach; looking at later model medium duty vehicles with similar/somewhat higher GVWR makes for a good donor pool. I'm looking at mid/late 80's Ford F600 front brakes, they are dual piston calipers, 15" diameter rotors. Not sure that they would even work with a 19.5" wheel, they may require 22.5" just due to their size.
When I say "looking", that's it, I have a full set of brand new drums and will (for this phase) be sticking with them. While I have everything apart I will get/document dimensions of spindles/available space and may "dryfit" a random part or two.
I'm in a different situation then most FMC'rs I frequently run at 22,000 GCWR so better brakes is a more functional mod for me than most.
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B. Sitton
Posted 2019-09-21 9:05 AM (#6879 - in reply to #6878)
Subject: Re: Disc or Drum brakes for FMCs ?


Location: Ignacio Colorado
(71.211.3.212)		Both systems are coming into the end of parts supply for some of the parts. Springs for drum brakes and rotors for the disc brakes.
Might get new rotors cast just like the batch of drums that were made. I know someone had a set of the springs made at an unreal cost. Over $500 if my memory is working. Not sure if that is all one type spring or if they made half to match the discontinued long arm spring that went through the shoe and locked into the backing plate.
Having two disc brake coaches and three with drums I’d like to see both systems kept viable.
Stephen will know who had the springs made so maybe we can have the same place run a large batch of the springs without the extra arm (only spring that’s been available for years). A run of 400 springs would service 25 coaches if all the springs are changed. I’d hope the cost would reduced for a large batch. 1000 springs would cover 62 coaches.
Bill
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LCAC_Man
Posted 2019-09-21 2:02 PM (#6880 - in reply to #6879)
Subject: Re: Disc or Drum brakes for FMCs ?


Location: Oceanside, CA
(172.10.134.245)		Another interesting find:
https://www.amazon.com/ISUZU-Hino-195-PCD-Aluminum/dp/B01LYOBPU3/ref...
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borrmann
Posted 2019-10-23 6:38 AM (#6985 - in reply to #6879)
Subject: Re: Disc or Drum brakes for FMCs ?


Location: Bluevale, Ontario
(216.46.157.136)		I need to service my brake system and would like to replace the rear factory rotors. I would be willing to go in on a group purchase of having them made. Are there any others that would consider doing this at this time? Otherwise I plan on retrofitting an existing rotor to do the job. Frank Borrmann
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fcrives3
Posted 2019-10-21 5:37 AM (#6979 - in reply to #6874)
Subject: Re: Disc or Drum brakes for FMCs ?


Location: Greensboro, NC
(207.140.122.6)		Good morning all I have # 471 Diesel Conversion it has the drum brakes on it with air ride suspension Joe Knight used to own it before I bought it out of a field from Bob Marshall, # 721 still has the 440 in it and it has disc brakes on I got it from Charlie Varner sat for 16 years in Dub Mitchell's barn pretty much all original # 934 belonged to my grandfather Frank Joyce who got it from Lou Noah, it still has the 440 in it and also has the drum brakes. I have decided that due to health reasons and lack of time all three coaches are going to be put up for sale. I will get them cleaned up and get pictures posted ASAP.
Thank you all for the help you provided me in the passed.

Thanks,
Chip Rives
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borrmann
Posted 2019-10-23 6:44 AM (#6986 - in reply to #6979)
Subject: Re: Disc or Drum brakes for FMCs ?


Location: Bluevale, Ontario
(216.46.157.136)		Hi Chip, looking forward to seeing those pictures. My first ever FMC rally was in Charleston SC in 1996. Those NC guys sure did amazing things with their coaches, it was a big inspiration to me. I got all my information on the differential swap from Joe Knight.
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andy1canada
Posted 2019-10-23 8:03 AM (#6987 - in reply to #6874)
Subject: Re: Disc or Drum brakes for FMCs ?


Location: Victoria, BC. Canada
(108.172.101.233)		Sorry to hear you have to sell your coach's Chip. If you post AD's on Cr.List please share the links here; although, one of us 'market-hawks' usually spots stuff pretty quick when they come up for sale. Of course you can always put pics up here, too.

Good to hear from you Frank. Hope all is good. I'll prolly be okay in the brake-parts dept for now. Got me hands full with this Cummins swap... and life.

Terry
#846
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B. Sitton
Posted 2019-10-23 8:33 AM (#6988 - in reply to #6987)
Subject: Re: Disc or Drum brakes for FMCs ?


Location: Ignacio Colorado
(71.211.3.212)		Frank, I’d like to know what we are looking at cost wise. I think it’s a real good idea. My transit has a grove in one rotor. My other disc brake coach is good but we need some spare rotors. Let me know what you find out.
Bill
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