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Just bought #489
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Jrobowen62
Posted 2016-06-26 9:18 AM (#3554)
Subject: Just bought #489


Location: Shoreview, MN
(184.100.81.229)		I just purchased a 1974 coach. 100k miles. I'd say it is in fair condition overall- but a few more problems than the seller shared. Unfortunately I had another camper get sold out from under me that I wanted so I might have rushed this purchase a bit.  Took it out for a 150 mile trip. I like it - but I can see now there is going to be a lot of tool time and money spent in my future to get it all right.  I am not so sure my wife is 100 percent behind me on this one. The photo I sent her made it look shorter and she kinda freaked out at the 29 foot length (but didn't stop the sale as she saw how much I liked it) - and they are pretty cool. However it wasn't cool yesterday at all. It was 90 degrees out for our trip and the AC needs work which didn't help - we cooked!  I guess I need to decide which way to go on this. I had no idea there was such a community around these coaches. Can anyone tell me what the demand for these units? If I wanted to back out of this project, would I have a hard time finding another buyer?  
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andy1canada
Posted 2016-06-26 9:49 AM (#3555 - in reply to #3554)
Subject: Re: Just bought #489


Location: Victoria, BC. Canada
(50.92.248.189)		Short answer: No!

Where is the coach, what do you want out of it and can you post pics and more info, ie. A-Model, J-Model, condition of the glass, upholstery and the rest, does it have Alcoa wheels etc ?

Oh, welcome to the Forum.

Terry
#846
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Jrobowen62
Posted 2016-06-26 10:50 AM (#3556 - in reply to #3554)
Subject: Re: Just bought #489


Location: Shoreview, MN
(184.100.81.229)		Thanks Terry. I'll put some info and pictures together. I'm in Minnesota.
Rob #489
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5Dollar
Posted 2016-06-26 12:06 PM (#3557 - in reply to #3554)
Subject: Re: Just bought #489


Location: Bethune, SC
(165.166.72.232)		Owning an FMC is an experience. If you want a problem free older motor home, they do not exist. You will be so glad to have this group for support when you need a part with a number you just cannot determine. You will have to enjoy being your own mechanic unless you can find a good mechanic who likes challenges with a low hourly rate. The service manuals are all on line, but often additions or creative repairs have made them, at best, documentation of what once was.

FMC's, once dialed in, ride and drive well. They are fantastic for hauling up to about a dozen people on a trip. FMC's are great for tailgating. Do not forget that FMC's are over 40 years old. A lot of things have changed or just worn out.

All that said, I have three plus a parts unit. One is an 8/10, one is a 6/10, and one is a 4/10. By this time next year, all will be brought up to peak road worthiness with all house systems working. One will be all electric, no propane. One will be wrapped in Georgia Tech colors on front and passenger side, with the rear and drivers side wrapped Auburn colors. This will be my son's tailgating coach -- he, Auburn, she, Georgia Tech. It will have a hidden mount for a 60" flat screen and an external sound system with Bluetooth for earphones. The final coach will be somewhat generic to support my granddaughter at horse shows. It will not be the tow vehicle as I do not think an FMC is the best for heavy tows. The great thing is, these coaches will all look great and do not look near as old as they are.

I recently took 8/10 on a short trip for some special service. I parked at a Love's Truck Stop and went in to eat. When I came out, there were about ten people looking at the FMC, and none looking at the mid-six-figure Prevost that had pulled in beside it. The Prevost owner was even looking at it. It was in the rare condition of being orderly inside, so I let those who wished to look inside. No one could believe it was over 40 years old. Being inconspicuous is not possible in an FMC.

Let me know if I can help.

Henry
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Jrobowen62
Posted 2016-06-26 1:31 PM (#3558 - in reply to #3554)
Subject: Re: Just bought #489


Location: Shoreview, MN
(184.100.81.229)		Thanks Henry. I appreciate your response and admire your enthusiasm. What do you mean by 8/10, etc.? Sounds like you have some cool projects going. If I go down the path of restoring this unit, I'm just hoping to get things working well enough to be able to camp a few days when we take my son Henry to college in Duluth. Mine is a J model originally owned my an EN&T doctor in Cheyenne.
Rob #489
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Jrobowen62
Posted 2016-07-20 9:32 PM (#3634 - in reply to #3554)
Subject: Re: Just bought #489


Location: Shoreview, MN
(24.245.16.184)		Made a 400 mile trip last weekend. Still shaking out some issues (like running hot). But really enjoyed the trip. What are the cooling problems generally related to or is it just mine?
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andy1canada
Posted 2016-07-20 11:31 PM (#3635 - in reply to #3554)
Subject: Re: Just bought #489


Location: Victoria, BC. Canada
(50.92.248.189)		What's hot? Up here in Canada with the way the cooling is set up on #846 (ie. outside fins on side engine house doors, rear exterior panel slots behind rad bent open extra wide etc) 195' is hot for me. Down south (IIRC) I've heard guys talk about 210'- 220' being the threshold of concern. If the coach has sat for an extended period I would do a rad and cooling system flush and pressure wash (carefully) the core to get all the bugs and dirt out of there. I would also change out the thermostat if it was at all suspect or the age was unknown. If you haven't already changed the oil and done a complete lube job - including ALL wheel bearings - I would suggest that would be on your imminent horizon.

If you just drove 400 miles and could steer and stop okay - CONGRATS - you are already well on your way. Did you use any brake fluid on the trip?

Terry
#846

Edited by andy1canada 2016-07-20 11:34 PM
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Jrobowen62
Posted 2016-07-21 3:36 PM (#3641 - in reply to #3554)
Subject: Re: Just bought #489


Location: Shoreview, MN
(50.207.42.155)		For starters, I think the temperature gauge or sending unit is suspect as it starts off at 190°F before it is even warmed up and then gets up over 280°F. That said I had the radiation cap lift once on the trip (and it was a new 7 psi rated unit) and leaked some coolant. I topped it off and didn't have further issues for 350 miles of the trip - but the ambient temperature was 70°F, which helps. More than anything it just seems overly hot in the engine compartment. I did all of your recommended actions before the trip (except the wheel bearings - I'm not sure what that even entails at this point). I did notice that the radiator has quite a few fins laid over on the engine side (maybe from a previous pressure washing). I also installed a new high flow thermostat (I got the recommended temperature rating from my manual, but I don't recall whether it was 160° or 180°) and gasket before the trip. I didn't check the brake fluid after the trip, but I will. I checked it before leaving, but I didn't see a "full" line so I'm not sure if it was low or not - it was about 1/2" - 3/4" below the top. Any help on that is appreciated.
Rob
#489
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byegorge
Posted 2016-08-05 7:14 PM (#3772 - in reply to #3641)
Subject: Re: Just bought #489


Location: Olympia, Washington
(73.42.182.228)		I think you are on the right track #506 normal operating temperature reads 250 deg. f. which in reality is only about 180 deg. f. Check with a known good thermometer to get an accurate temperature or better yet with a non-contact infrared thermometer. The FMC will always seem stinkin hot after shutdown even when everything is perfectly normal. Does it 'feel' hot or is it hot measure and find out.
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Jrobowen62
Posted 2016-08-05 10:15 PM (#3774 - in reply to #3772)
Subject: Re: Just bought #489


Location: Shoreview, MN
(24.245.16.184)		I have access to an infrared thermometer. Any particular spot I should aim at?
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andy1canada
Posted 2016-08-05 10:50 PM (#3775 - in reply to #3774)
Subject: Re: Just bought #489


Location: Victoria, BC. Canada
(50.92.248.189)		Between the eyes!

Aggghhhh!

Terry
#846

PS. I digress...
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andy1canada
Posted 2016-07-21 4:34 PM (#3642 - in reply to #3554)
Subject: Re: Just bought #489


Location: Victoria, BC. Canada
(50.92.248.189)		Don't mistake me for someone who knows everything about these fine old coaches; there's a ton of guys on here who'll likely chime in with salient advice who a shit-ton more than me, especially about deeper mechanical issues.

I do know a little about brakes as I've completed the better part of an overhaul on two of these coaches and learned a lot. 1/2" from the top is fine for your master. Important to watch what it's doing and when you can, at least do a flush with new fluid if it hasn't been done in the last year or two. Piece of mind. I think most would agree that it would be good for you to pull a front wheel, remove the drum and inspect your wheel cylinders and also how much meat is on the shoes. You'll find two wheel cylinders and if you see obvious weeping of fluid - any amount of fluid - before or after you pull back the little black rubber boots off of each end, I would order up new ones, or, if you determine after inspection of the bores that they are not severely pitted, buy an inexpensive honing tool for your electric drill and clean them up. First off I would determine that you can still buy the rebuild kits for these; they're $5 or $6 each and you'll need 8 of em'. Next, I would read up on the two different master cylinder/hydro-vac booster combinations that were available in FMC's. Early ones used a smaller master cylinder (with pressure relief valves in the 2 output ports) in combination with 2 smaller hydro-vac boosters (one just ahead of the front right wheel, the other just inside the pass-side engine house door) and these small boosters had NO pressure relief valves in them. Conversely, later coaches came with a larger MC (with 2 square-ish reservoirs) and NO pressure relief valves in them and were used with 2 larger hydro-vacs WITH the pressure relief valves in the output ports. Point is: regardless of what year of coach you have - you need to confirm that the correct MC is being used in conjunction with the correct hydro-vacs or you could end up with brake-drag from residual pressure in the lines. Brake drag in these things is problematic (dangerous) and needs to be remedied.

I would also encourage you to 'be one' with your service manual and don't be afraid to go on the Yahoo FMC site either, there's a crap-ton of great threads on there archived over the last 15 yrs or more. Most of the original Parts & Service Manuals are also available on-line at fmcmotorcoach.com if you are not aware.

Any more questions, fire when ready. If I can't help there's lots of others who can.

Good luck.
Terry
#846

I hear you on the engine-house temperature. You could bake bread in there when all is well I think.
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TX-FMC
Posted 2016-08-05 1:07 PM (#3771 - in reply to #3642)
Subject: Re: Just bought #489



(66.68.174.212)		Andy is correct on both points - brake cylinders and most importantly about the correct type of master cylinder. My brake cylinders leaked and I had found new replacements that were $90 each. I opted for honing and rebuild kits (I used BrakeBest part # BHH WCK19381). I sat on the front porch and just honed and honed until all pitting was gone. When honing don't let it sit in the spot where pitting is, you must hone the whole cylinder evenly for best results. So far so good, no leaks. Next, about the master cylinder - I was wondering why my brakes had trouble releasing, thanks for solving this Andy. I had searched various early to mid 1970's Dodge/Chrysler truck master cylinder applications at the auto parts store, and narrowed it down to two - I apparently picked the wrong one, my brakes are not properly releasing. Andy is correct in that this could be a potentially dangerous and/or costly mistake (new brake pads for one). Mine has the early style front/rear hydrovac system. Does anybody know what brand/part number master cylinder that is a correct replacement for the small style type master cylinder? Thanks.

Edited by TX-FMC 2016-08-05 1:07 PM
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Jrobowen62
Posted 2016-07-21 4:44 PM (#3643 - in reply to #3554)
Subject: Re: Just bought #489


Location: Shoreview, MN
(50.207.42.155)		Thanks Terry. Now I have something new to figure out (brakes). I tell my wife I sometimes feel like the astronaut in "The Martian" who has to solve problem after problem and he is on his own - except I guess I do have a lifeline with the FMC group!
Rob
#489
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andy1canada
Posted 2016-07-21 5:32 PM (#3644 - in reply to #3554)
Subject: Re: Just bought #489


Location: Victoria, BC. Canada
(50.92.248.189)		You do! And 'worst case scenario' - you fall in love with the old POS and then you're screwed just like the rest of us.

Honestly, I've driven a few motorhomes and when an FMC is set up right - there's nothing that drives like it. They're old but were light-years ahead of their time back in the day. Short, squat, low drag coefficient - cuts the wind like a knife!

Terry
#846
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dkarnath
Posted 2016-07-21 5:40 PM (#3645 - in reply to #3554)
Subject: Re: Just bought #489


Location: Medford, OR
(204.10.247.1)		Hey Rob.
You should start an album and show all of us what #489 looks like!!

Dan
#850
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Jrobowen62
Posted 2016-07-21 7:08 PM (#3646 - in reply to #3554)
Subject: Re: Just bought #489


Location: Shoreview, MN
(24.245.16.184)		I tried but wasn't too successful. I'll give it another try.
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dkarnath
Posted 2016-07-21 7:12 PM (#3647 - in reply to #3554)
Subject: Re: Just bought #489


Location: Medford, OR
(75.142.8.77)		I have to resize my pictures smaller than 200kb.
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Jrobowen62
Posted 2016-07-21 8:15 PM (#3648 - in reply to #3554)
Subject: Re: Just bought #489


Location: Shoreview, MN
(24.245.16.184)		I resized and was successful. The album shows up as jrobowen62.

Edited by Jrobowen62 2016-07-21 8:18 PM
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dkarnath
Posted 2016-07-22 12:00 AM (#3649 - in reply to #3554)
Subject: Re: Just bought #489


Location: Medford, OR
(75.142.8.77)		Looks to me like you have something to work with. Get a little fresh paint on them sweet 17" wheels....If you need tires, tubes or flaps, you can buy them at Coker Tire. You still may be able to buy the tires at Summit Racing and get free shipping. I was contemplating on mounting my spare tire up front on 850. Still not sure.

Dan
#850
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Jrobowen62
Posted 2016-07-22 6:41 AM (#3650 - in reply to #3554)
Subject: Re: Just bought #489


Location: Shoreview, MN
(71.220.8.78)		Thanks for the info on the tires. The fronts are new bias tires. A little squirrelly. The rears are older Michelin radials. I see big number$ tossed around for Alcoa's and such. My wife is not too enamored with the FMC so I am reluctant to put a lot of dough into it right now. I have two kids in college, so you can imagine the situation. As far as the tire up front, the PO did that as he had a bicycle rack mounted in the receiver. I had another RV years ago and carried the spare on the roof, but these wheels look to be a bit heavy for that. I think it looks a little goofy but it is convenient there and not in the way of anything like it would be on the rear.
Rob
#489
Shoreview, MN
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andy1canada
Posted 2016-07-22 9:03 AM (#3651 - in reply to #3554)
Subject: Re: Just bought #489


Location: Victoria, BC. Canada
(50.92.248.189)		Just checked out the pics of your coach Rob. Very nice. I always had a soft spot for the FMC's with the blacked out center along the length of the windows. You've also got and overhead console above the dash which is not stock but certainly a great addition IMHO.

I have my spare out front, too. About 6 years ago I decided to move my 100/lb spare out front where I could actually use the weight. I drilled out the front SS bumper to accept my common 'rat-trap' spring loaded tire carrier you see on the back of many FMC's. Them bumpers are hard as hell to drill. After deciding to hold off on the more expensive hard continental-kit tire cover I searched in vain for someone in Canada to sell me a 33" diameter vinyl cover with some graphics on it, namely, the Canadian flag. Ironically, I connected with these great folks - small family owned outfit - down in the Eastern States who sewed me up a beauty and shipped it to my door here on Vancouver Island for under $90.00/CDN. They did excellent work and I'm really happy with how it looks. I tried to find paperwork or and email to the outfit but had no luck. I think it's these guys: https://www.custom-tire-covers.net/

Keep us posted on your progress.

Terry
#846
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dkarnath
Posted 2016-07-22 2:55 PM (#3652 - in reply to #3554)
Subject: Re: Just bought #489


Location: Medford, OR
(75.142.8.77)		The squiralliness is probably because you have radials on the rear and bias on the front. They don't play well with one another
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Jrobowen62
Posted 2016-07-22 3:55 PM (#3654 - in reply to #3554)
Subject: Re: Just bought #489


Location: Shoreview, MN
(50.207.42.155)		Dan,
I wondered about that. I checked out the Coker tires at Summit Racing (they still have them at about $170 each/free shipping) and they are all bias ply tires (for vintage vehicles - "makes them look period correct" ) and saw they were all S speed rating. I looked up the speed rating (good to 100 mph, thankfully) and saw a note saying that all tires should have the same speed rating or it will cause instability. I'm not sure what the speed rating on the Michelin "X-somethings" are, but that could have something to do with it. I know that I must pay very close attention while doing 65 mph and to only make small corrections. After 400 miles I have to admit I felt much more comfortable driving it (keeping it in the center of the lane, navigating tight turns and the highway speed squirrelliness) than the first 20 miles.
Rob
#489

Edited by Jrobowen62 2016-07-22 3:57 PM
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