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hydro-vac on Amazon
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brucenolan@juno.com
Posted 2018-03-03 2:46 PM (#5342)
Subject: hydro-vac on Amazon



Contributor


Location: Ramona, California
good price for anyone needing the larger hydro vacs: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000HSC05S/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o...

unfortunately, I needed small vacs, I now have two large vacs. I searched and did not find a definitive answer if anyone can help. I was going to change out the master cylinder anyway, can I install the Napa #M2134 with these larger hydro vacs? is there an advantage to converting #729 to that setup?

sorry if the has been discussed before, I looked on yahoo and here and could not find an answer.

thanks all

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hemi354az
Posted 2018-03-03 3:21 PM (#5343 - in reply to #5342)
Subject: Re: hydro-vac on Amazon


Extreme Veteran

100100100
Location: Scottsdale, Aridzona
Why do you think the one on Amazon fits your FMC ? As shown - http://www.bepco.biz/sites/default/files/BEPCO%20INC%20HYDRAULIC%20... - there are several different HydroVacs.
Lou #120
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brucenolan@juno.com
Posted 2018-03-03 3:36 PM (#5344 - in reply to #5342)
Subject: Re: hydro-vac on Amazon



Contributor


Location: Ramona, California
Hi Lou, in my haste, the amount of part numbers here on the site confused me. I have all the front brakes torn apart and trying to order parts the 51-8000 was the part # I saw and ordered it. dang it. I can send them back but thought it would be a good upgrade if I'm replacing the master cylinder anyway
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BigRabbitMan
Posted 2018-03-03 8:14 PM (#5345 - in reply to #5342)
Subject: Re: hydro-vac on Amazon



Elite Veteran

50010010010010025
Location: Cottage Grove, OR
Based on others comparing the pedal effort for braking on my coach with the large system vs the small system on other coaches it would be a good change/upgrade. As you have determined already, it is a change it all or don't change anything as it must remain a balanced system. It may require a different length of push rod between the brake pedal and the master cylinder. Yours can be lengthened or shortened by any machine/welding shop.

It was good meeting you in Castaic and will see you in Chama,
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brucenolan@juno.com
Posted 2018-03-04 10:53 AM (#5346 - in reply to #5342)
Subject: Re: hydro-vac on Amazon



Contributor


Location: Ramona, California
Hi Stephen,
thanks for the reply. I enjoyed meeting you and the rest of the group in Castaic as well, thanks for the tour of the rigs!
Napa has the M2134 under 50$ so I will proceed with that upgrade. shoes are out getting relined and hopefully the drums can be turned to clean them up, I haven't heard from the shop yet. the wheel cylinders looked good so I'm rebuilding them. I am familiar with the push rod length issue from a hydroboost (to Jeep PU) install I did years ago.

Thanks for the help and see you in Chama!


Edited by brucenolan@juno.com 2018-03-04 10:55 AM
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B. Sitton
Posted 2018-03-05 8:00 AM (#5347 - in reply to #5346)
Subject: Re: hydro-vac on Amazon


Veteran

100100252525
Location: Ignacio Colorado
If you have the whole system apart you might think about DOT 5 fluid. You would have to flush the lines with denatured alcohol to remove all the DOT 3 while everything is apart. I picked up the larger boosters and master cylinder for this change. Amazon didn’t have these at that time. What a deal! I shopped around and got all new wheel cylinders and a case of small bottles of DOT 5. Better to get the smaller bottles if you can get a good price. That way you don’t have half a gallon open. Guess it doesn’t absorb moisture like DOT 3.
Glad to meet you in Chama.
Bill
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brucenolan@juno.com
Posted 2018-03-06 1:40 AM (#5349 - in reply to #5347)
Subject: Re: hydro-vac on Amazon



Contributor


Location: Ramona, California
Hi Bill,
I will look into Dot5. Thanks for the info. the system will be totally open as I will get into the back brakes as well. the rear brake lines will get moved to the lower cylinders. hopefully, it will be easier to bleed. I heard from the shop, the front drums got turned, just waiting on friction material for the shoes.

Looking forward to the Chama rally sounds like a good 4th!!
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brucenolan@juno.com
Posted 2018-03-31 10:36 PM (#5465 - in reply to #5342)
Subject: Re: hydro-vac on Amazon



Contributor


Location: Ramona, California
I got the front shoes back, good looking reline at $27 per shoe/ $108 for the front axle. San Diego Friction Material in San Marcos.
I dropped the front hydro-vac to install the new, larger unit... the brake fittings are a different size. looks like I have 3/16" line with 3/8-24 fittings. the new H-vac looks to be 7/16-20 fittings.
I was going to just adapt the fittings but thought a 1/4" line from the H-vac to the front brake tee and a new 1/4" tee reduced down to both front brakes will work better.
any thoughts on that setup? will it help or should I just adapt at the H-vac? this new H-vac is also 3/4 inch longer so fitting an adaptor in might be difficult.
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hemi354az
Posted 2018-04-01 1:28 AM (#5468 - in reply to #5465)
Subject: Re: hydro-vac on Amazon


Extreme Veteran

100100100
Location: Scottsdale, Aridzona
I am tired of writing this . . . but I will do it one more time.
The large H-Vacs are used with a CHECK VALVE screwed into the very end where the fluid goes OUT TO THE TEE. Does your new H-Vac have that check valve ? That might be why it is longer . . . but I do not know that for sure. I have never found a Part Number for the large H-Vac Check Valve.
The large H-Vacs use Bendix #11583, Dorman #M39012, Centric #130,68001, Wagner #MC84058, Cardone #13-1583(new) or #10-1583(Reman), or NAPA #NMC M2134(New) or NMC P2134(Reman), MASTER CYLINDER, that should NOT have any Check Valves in the two "OUT" PORTS. If they are in a new/reman Master Cylinder used on large H-Vacs . . . TAKE THEM OUT.

Return Springs (4 springs for EACH wheel, 16 Total) for the FMC Drum Brake Shoes Part Numbers are Carlson #500 (Springs ONLY, Qty ?), AC Delco #18K1651 (Kit for two wheels) - https://www.rockauto.com/en/parts/acdelco,18K1651,drum+brake+... -,
GM OEM #19438430 (Qty ?), Raybestos #H9224. NAPA used to have them as #UP 2445 for a 2 wheel kit and #UP 80164 as Springs ONLY, but they are now "discontined". Those Brake Shoe Return Springs are "drying up" out there. Better get some while there are still some available.

These Part Numbers/Sources have been discussed here and at the Yahoo FMC Website.

New brake tubing is now available that FLARES much easier than the old stuff, does NOT rust, and bends nicely with simple tube bend hand tools. Lots of work . . . but putting in new tubing and fittings that match the Master Cylinder, H-Vacs, and tubing END Fittings at the frame rail for each wheel would be smart . . especially if you change to DOT 5 Brake Fluid. The flex hose from the frame to each backing plate LOWER wheel cylinder at each wheel can be -4 size or there are places that have already made up -3 size flex brake hose with fittings installed/crimped. The -4 stuff seems to also be "drying up", and many, even the Parker Store, only carry the -3 flex brake hose and fittings. Only issue I have with the -3 is that there is not much metal there, and it is hard to get the -3 fittings TIGHT unless you have some really good tubing wrenches that fit really snug. In either case, -3 or -4, use ONLY STEEL HOSE END FITTINGS. This shop still has Pre-Made -4 Brake Hoses - https://www.pegasusautoracing.com/productselection.asp?Product=4 - as well as -3.
They also make brake hoses to length if you are "in between" something they already have. They also have the right fittings that screw into the wheel cylinders that use the copper washers. The LCAC man has some discussion and pictures of the fittings that go into the wheel cylinders on this FMC Owners website. Remember the more connections/fittings you have . . . the more places you have to LEAK. There are several "on-line" shops that make brake hoses with Russel, AeroQuip, BrakeQuip, and other brands of hose and fittings as well, but I use the Pegasus Store.

I'll leave it up to you to determine the THREAD SIZE of the inlet port of the FMC Drum Brake Wheel Cylinder, the THREAD SIZE of the outlet ports of the Master cylinder, and the THREAD SIZE of whatever tubing size and fittings you decide to use, and what fittings/THREAD SIZE have to go on each end of the flex hose from the frame to the wheel cylinder.
Brake ON ! Lou #120

Edited by hemi354az 2018-04-01 1:34 AM
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brucenolan@juno.com
Posted 2018-04-01 1:41 AM (#5469 - in reply to #5342)
Subject: Re: hydro-vac on Amazon



Contributor


Location: Ramona, California
thanks for your input Lou
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hemi354az
Posted 2018-04-01 11:30 AM (#5470 - in reply to #5469)
Subject: Re: hydro-vac on Amazon


Extreme Veteran

100100100
Location: Scottsdale, Aridzona
Duh ? They were MY pictures of the Wheel Cylinder fittings, not LCAC's. Sorry . . .
Please see - http://www.fmcowners.com/mbbs22/photos/photo-thumbnails.asp?albumid...
Lou #120
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ricogomez
Posted 2018-04-01 8:40 PM (#5473 - in reply to #5342)
Subject: RE: hydro-vac on Amazon


Veteran

100
Location: Houston, Texas
Hey Bruce, we are currently doing all these changes/upgrades, and I found this type of fitting
at Orealy....they fit on our new large Hydrovac boosters & brake lines.

Dorman p/n 788-516D. 1/4 x 5/16 they keep them hanging on the rotating displays
with bolts and some other plastic fasteners, we also had to get some other adapters
For our new large Master Cylinder that we got from Napa.

I’m not an expert at this, just sharing what worked on ours..


Hope this helps to make it easier....


Rico

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brucenolan@juno.com
Posted 2018-04-01 8:59 PM (#5475 - in reply to #5342)
Subject: Re: hydro-vac on Amazon



Contributor


Location: Ramona, California
Thanks Rico, on #729 I have 3/16 line with 3/8-24 fitting. the new H-vac are 7/16-20 or 24 can't tell yet. so I am looking at Dorman p/n 785-432 I think. however I just pulled the M/C and am totally confused now the fittings on the new M/C are the same size as the old but swapped end for end. I have to go back and review Stephen M/C numbers over on yahoo. it is not making sense to me... if the H-vac are the same front and rear and the wheel cylinders are the same how can the M/C put out different volume?

after review I see the 2134 is equal volume +/- a bit, primary/secondary

so which is front/rear?

are you installing the 2134 M/C from NAPA?



edit after review of yahoo

Edited by brucenolan@juno.com 2018-04-01 9:17 PM
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ricogomez
Posted 2018-04-01 9:09 PM (#5476 - in reply to #5342)
Subject: RE: hydro-vac on Amazon


Veteran

100
Location: Houston, Texas
Hey Bruce, yes We got ours from Napa, ( Hydros & Master Cylinder & Dot 5 Gal jug) forgot to mention, ea one of our old Small HydroVacs, had one of these adapters installed on already, so we only had to get 2 more from Oreally, and you are right, there’s barely enough room, but so far is all good.


Rico
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hemi354az
Posted 2018-04-01 10:32 PM (#5478 - in reply to #5476)
Subject: Re: hydro-vac on Amazon


Extreme Veteran

100100100
Location: Scottsdale, Aridzona
See Figure 9-1 in parts book to see which tubes go to which MC Ports and which go IN and which go OUT of the "Distribution Block w/IDIOT Light", to FRONT or REAR H-Vac.
http://www.fmcmotorcoach.com/files/Parts_manual/9_Service_Brakes.pd...
Lou #120
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brucenolan@juno.com
Posted 2018-04-01 11:18 PM (#5479 - in reply to #5342)
Subject: Re: hydro-vac on Amazon



Contributor


Location: Ramona, California

figure 9-1 is confusing as it shows two different layouts. #39 goes to the rear and #67 goes to the front H-vacs on both. however, #38 goes to either #39 or #67 as does #37 in both layouts. the only difference is "Distribution Block w/IDIOT Light" orientation. my switch is horizontal as shown in the upper layout detail. is the layout in the lower detail for the larger H-vac and M/C system? I believe that is the case in my system as the port sizes match that layout with the new NAPA 2134 M/C

I will plumb my system as shown in the lower detail.

Thanks Lou!
Brake On!


Edited by brucenolan@juno.com 2018-04-01 11:18 PM
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hemi354az
Posted 2018-04-01 11:53 PM (#5480 - in reply to #5479)
Subject: Re: hydro-vac on Amazon


Extreme Veteran

100100100
Location: Scottsdale, Aridzona
Duh did you read the description of Item #37, and others, in the PARTS LIST. It indicates 3 different Groups of Coach Serial Numbers that apply to the picture. If that picture (9.1) is too complicated for you . . . I can't help you.
Press ON ! Lou #120
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brucenolan@juno.com
Posted 2018-04-02 12:11 AM (#5481 - in reply to #5342)
Subject: Re: hydro-vac on Amazon



Contributor


Location: Ramona, California
yeah lou, way too complicated for me. thanks for your help......
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