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A 22.5" possible wheel solution?
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journeyman
Posted 2017-05-08 12:49 AM (#4581)
Subject: A 22.5" possible wheel solution?


Contributor

25
A lot of wheel threads, but possibly this could be an answer for using 22.5 tires... And getting new wheels?

http://www.wheelsnowinc.com/catalog/viewItem.php?id=1165
Part Number: WN89810J

Part Number: WN89810J
Brand: Wheels Now Inc.
Wheel Specifications

Rim Size: 22.50 X 6.75 Single Piece Tubeless
Bolt Pattern: 5 Hole on 8.00" Bolt Circle, 5.875" bore
Mounting Type: Stud Piloted Dual
Offset: 5.74"
Material: Steel
Number of Hand Holes: 2
Approx. Wt. (lbs): 91

Similar to obsolete Budd PN 89810


I have a request for quote in right now, but several points of concern:
5.875 center bore. FMC uses a 6" Is 6" a nominal dimension? Will the 5.875 work? would it need to be bored out to 6"?

Weight = 91 Lbs. YIKES! most 22.5's are about 70 Lb for steel, about 50 Lbs for Aluminum. This is one HEAVY rim.

Does anyone know what a 89810 Budd part number is?
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B. Sitton
Posted 2017-05-08 7:53 AM (#4582 - in reply to #4581)
Subject: Re: A 22.5" possible wheel solution?


Extreme Veteran

100100100100
Location: Ignacio Colorado
You have to have the center hole machined out slightly larger than 6.0" so the wheel can be centered with the lugs. Straight 6.0" will be tight to the hub and you don't want that with the stud/lug piloted wheels.
Bill
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journeyman
Posted 2017-05-08 8:01 AM (#4583 - in reply to #4581)
Subject: Re: A 22.5" possible wheel solution?


Contributor

25
So the stock wheels are 6+ dia on the center hole?

I can ask for custom work to be done on these, so opening up the center hole could be possible. Would 6.125" be too much? Possibly 6.06?
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B. Sitton
Posted 2017-05-08 8:14 AM (#4584 - in reply to #4581)
Subject: Re: A 22.5" possible wheel solution?


Extreme Veteran

100100100100
Location: Ignacio Colorado
The last set of 19.5" steel wheels I had machined were cut to 6.030" if memory is working. Doesn't take much clearance but some is crucial.
Bill
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BigRabbitMan
Posted 2017-05-09 11:42 AM (#4586 - in reply to #4581)
Subject: Re: A 22.5" possible wheel solution?



Expert

100010010025
Location: Cottage Grove, OR
That same company will also make 19.5" wheels so you do not have to go to 22.5" wheels to get newly manufactured wheels. I, personally, do not like the 22.5" wheels as they increase the unsprung weight, increase tire cost and reduce the turning radius of the coach. The sharp turning radius is one of the many things that I like about the coach. The larger diameter of the 22.5" wheel and tire combination doesn't allow the front wheel to turn as far as the tire will hit the frame member. They also cause a rougher ride due to the greater unsprung weight and the reduced flex of the tire.

But tire and wheel choice is a personal thing, so do what you desire.
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hemi354az
Posted 2017-05-09 11:55 AM (#4587 - in reply to #4581)
Subject: RE: A 22.5" possible wheel solution?


Extreme Veteran

50025
Location: Scottsdale, Aridzona
You can have hub centered wheels or lug centered wheels. One or the other, but NOT both. Each type (lug or hub) has unique lugs and sometimes studs as well. You need to KNOW before you GO . . . to the STORE !
Before you buy those 22.5s, research and source lug nuts, and do some figuring on the rear dual offset pair and how they fit in the wheelwell, including clearance between the inside of the inside tire and the suspension trailing arm, based on section width of the tire you select.
Please keep us informed of your 22.5 rims purchase price, lug part numbers and source, and which tire you selected. Other FMCers could really use your selection if it works out !
Roll ON ! Lou #120

This link might be useful - http://truckhub.us/yahoo_site_admin/assets/docs/Euclid100DWheelAtta...

Edited by hemi354az 2017-05-09 12:04 PM
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hemi354az
Posted 2017-05-09 2:07 PM (#4588 - in reply to #4586)
Subject: Re: A 22.5" possible wheel solution?


Extreme Veteran

50025
Location: Scottsdale, Aridzona
Perhaps keeping the 19.5" rims/tires (or the original 17" which has a tire that is almost the same diameter as the 19.5 tires for a 6.00-6.75 in rim) ON THE FRONT for steering radius and ride, but put 22.5s on the rear to slow the engine down at 65 MPH would be worthwhile for engine life (speed/heat kills) and some possible decrease in fuel consumption.

This link - http://www.advanced-ev.com/Calculators/TireSize/ - lets you put in 3 and calculates the fourth. I used a constant Rear End Ratio of 4.63 and constant 65 MPH, and put in different tire diameters and let it calculate the Engine RPM.

I picked RV tires from the Michelin Catalog - http://tiregroup.com/Catalogs/PDF%20Catalogs/Michelin.pdf - that fit a 6.00-6.75 rim width in a 19.5 rim (225/70-R19.5) and a 22.5 rim (235/80-R22.5) and got a 29.8 inch tire diameter for a 19.5 rim and 34.8 inch for a 22.5 rim.

The calculated (link above) engine RPM for 65 MPH with the (unchangeable) 4.63 rear end ratio for the tire used on a 19.5" rim is 3396 RPM and for a tire used on a 22.5" rim is 2906 RPM.
Dropping the engine RPM 485 revs will extend engine life, run cooler, and save gas as you motor across West Tejas or Nebraska in the middle of the summer.
If you gotta buy rims/tires . . . this "little front and TALLER rear" has benefit . . . ENGINE LIFE !

You are encouraged to look at tires suitable for 19.5 and 22.5 rims that are for 6.00-6.75" rim width and find other tire diameters that can be put in the calculator to get "other" engine RPMs. You may find an even better TALL TIRE for the rear of your FMC to SLOW THE ENGINE DOWN. If you choose to carry a spare . . . a 22.5 rim/tire would work on ONE SIDE of the front until you got someplace to repair/replace a blown 19.5 front.
Roll On . . . with LESS RPM ! Lou #120

Edited by hemi354az 2017-05-09 2:08 PM
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LCAC_Man
Posted 2017-05-09 2:46 PM (#4589 - in reply to #4588)
Subject: Re: A 22.5" possible wheel solution?


Elite Veteran

5001001001002525
Location: Oceanside, CA
The 8R19.5 is the tallest of the tires that will fit the 19.5 x 6" Alcoa wheel. Of the available tires in that size I selected the Double Coin RT600's because they were the tallest (34.1" I could find.
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hemi354az
Posted 2017-05-09 4:52 PM (#4590 - in reply to #4589)
Subject: Re: A 22.5" possible wheel solution?


Extreme Veteran

50025
Location: Scottsdale, Aridzona
I used the static load radius in the calculation above.

https://www.doublecointires.com/tire/rt600/

And the overall diameter tire for a 22.5 rim with a 6" rim width is 38.3".
Wow, that slows 65 MPH RPM to 2640 !
Might need another step at the side entrance door though . . .
Roll ON ! Lou #120

Edited by hemi354az 2017-05-09 4:58 PM
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journeyman
Posted 2017-05-09 5:16 PM (#4591 - in reply to #4581)
Subject: Re: A 22.5" possible wheel solution?


Contributor

25
OK, so I heard back with a quote from WheelsNow. The news is not surprising, but not good:




The $225 in stock wheel is a 22.50 x 6.75, the $394 wheel would be 22.50 x 7.50 or 22.50 x 8.25 so they would be significantly different in size.
- The WN89810J wheel, which is the $225 dollar wheel is approximately 90bs. No matter if we built or took the one off the shelf we are talking between 90-100lbs.
- We can take the off the shelf wheel and machine out the pilot hole to your measurement, there would be an additional charge for that, approximately $45 per wheel.





So, with 7 wheels, we are looking at 1575 for wheels, $315 for machining = $1890
THEN i would have to ship them to California.
This gets north of $2K really quick.

I need to find another solution. Engine RPM is not that critical as I have OD, but I have run these 22.5's on another coach and they were fabulous. BTW, they are 37" OD
Still, I am thinking the most prudent thing to do is stay with the 19.5's I have and look for tires.


Edited by journeyman 2017-05-09 5:35 PM
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LCAC_Man
Posted 2017-05-09 8:29 PM (#4592 - in reply to #4591)
Subject: Re: A 22.5" possible wheel solution?


Elite Veteran

5001001001002525
Location: Oceanside, CA
If I ever make the switch to 22.5" (I like the look) I would do it with a modern 10lug pattern, and I would do it in concert with a modern disc brake conversion. When I get some time I'm going to look at the possibility of using the brakes from a C4500/C5500 Kodiak Medium duty truck. There will be a lot of leg work in comparing spindle diameters/lengths to see if it's even possible...it won't be this year..
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journeyman
Posted 2017-05-10 2:22 PM (#4601 - in reply to #4592)
Subject: Re: A 22.5" possible wheel solution?


Contributor

25
LCAC_Man - 2017-05-10 4:29 AM

If I ever make the switch to 22.5" (I like the look) I would do it with a modern 10lug pattern, and I would do it in concert with a modern disc brake conversion. When I get some time I'm going to look at the possibility of using the brakes from a C4500/C5500 Kodiak Medium duty truck. There will be a lot of leg work in comparing spindle diameters/lengths to see if it's even possible...it won't be this year..


You have my attention...

This BY FAR would be the best solution. Do you have ideas on what you could use for hubs/rotors?
I really like the idea of have commercially available off-the-shelf parts that use standard rims/tires. As a slight bonus: this will have big disk brakes.

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LCAC_Man
Posted 2017-05-10 3:03 PM (#4603 - in reply to #4581)
Subject: Re: A 22.5" possible wheel solution?


Elite Veteran

5001001001002525
Location: Oceanside, CA
I haven't even scratched the surface on the research...my first look would be at stock Kodiak parts to see how close they are...
The rear axle is a rockwell unit (140 series) and they put them in a lot of applications for a lot of years so I'd probably pull the string on that next...seeing what vehicles used a 140 and had disc brakes..
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journeyman
Posted 2017-05-10 3:32 PM (#4604 - in reply to #4581)
Subject: Re: A 22.5" possible wheel solution?


Contributor

25
I actually have a Kodiak 6000 front axle with hydraulic disk brakes. It has the ubiquitous 10 on 11.25" lug pattern and HUGE disk brakes. I had that for another project that did not work out.

The standard 10 lug wheels found on most all semi trucks around the world would be a breath of fresh air for the FMC. Not only 22.5" but also 19.5" wheels.

Front AND rear axles will be a challenge. Matching spindles/bearings/hubs to the factory FMC stuff is what we need to do.
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dkarnath
Posted 2017-05-10 4:02 PM (#4605 - in reply to #4604)
Subject: Re: A 22.5" possible wheel solution?


Elite Veteran

5001002525
Location: Medford, OR
You have to make it all "bolt on" Len, none of this fab this fab that crap...lol
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LCAC_Man
Posted 2017-05-10 4:10 PM (#4606 - in reply to #4581)
Subject: Re: A 22.5" possible wheel solution?


Elite Veteran

5001001001002525
Location: Oceanside, CA
I've gotten so bad now that when someone tells me it will "bolt-on" I know immediately that it won't satisfy me. If someone took my welder and plasma cutter away I'd probably just toss a match inside my rig and let it burn...I can't imagine getting anything done on it without them..
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journeyman
Posted 2017-05-10 4:41 PM (#4607 - in reply to #4581)
Subject: Re: A 22.5" possible wheel solution?


Contributor

25
If the front spindle is the same as a truck that has a 10 on 11.25 disk hub, the rest (brake calipers, mounts, etc.) is just details.

The rear is a different story.

I would like to know what actually goes on there and what could fit.
It would not surprise me if the FMC engineers picked a hub assy for the rear that was common to something that also had the standard lug pattern.
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LCAC_Man
Posted 2017-05-10 4:53 PM (#4608 - in reply to #4607)
Subject: Re: A 22.5" possible wheel solution?


Elite Veteran

5001001001002525
Location: Oceanside, CA
The hub could be the same as the solid axle Dodge motorhomes and Ford F600's of the era that share the same 5 on 8" wheel pattern... research on bearing commonalities would get you going in the right direction..
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journeyman
Posted 2017-05-14 1:16 PM (#4641 - in reply to #4608)
Subject: Re: A 22.5" possible wheel solution?


Contributor

25
LCAC_Man - 2017-05-11 12:53 AM

The hub could be the same as the solid axle Dodge motorhomes and Ford F600's of the era that share the same 5 on 8" wheel pattern... research on bearing commonalities would get you going in the right direction..


Possibly someone knows something right here on the board.
I will start a thread. Maybe we'll get some clues.

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