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The Dieselfication of Coach 1046
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BigRabbitMan
Posted 2015-10-10 11:38 PM (#3071 - in reply to #1311)
Subject: Re: The Dieselfication of Coach 1046



Elite Veteran

500100100100
Location: Cottage Grove, OR
Today's report is found at these two links. I might note that all of the Banks units are installed. Still more things to finish up but the list is getting very short.

https://vimeo.com/142032281

https://vimeo.com/142032711

It is very exciting to have reached this point.

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LCAC_Man
Posted 2015-10-11 7:28 AM (#3074 - in reply to #1311)
Subject: Re: The Dieselfication of Coach 1046


Extreme Veteran

100100100100
Location: Oceanside, CA
sounds and looks fantastic!
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BigRabbitMan
Posted 2015-10-14 10:59 AM (#3085 - in reply to #1311)
Subject: Re: The Dieselfication of Coach 1046



Elite Veteran

500100100100
Location: Cottage Grove, OR
Ok, here is a little more "eye candy" as someone described my photo album. Page 31 of the album includes pictures of the installed dash cluster with engine running.
http://fmcowners.com/mbbs22/photos/photo-thumbnails.asp?albumid=77&...

Today's project is to replace the front brake booster and bleed all of the brakes prior to driving the coach.
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LCAC_Man
Posted 2015-10-14 4:11 PM (#3086 - in reply to #3085)
Subject: Re: The Dieselfication of Coach 1046


Extreme Veteran

100100100100
Location: Oceanside, CA
I think we need to see a black smoke full power launch!
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BigRabbitMan
Posted 2015-10-17 12:10 AM (#3089 - in reply to #1311)
Subject: Re: The Dieselfication of Coach 1046



Elite Veteran

500100100100
Location: Cottage Grove, OR
No black smoke today, but it did move from its position where we did the transformation to a more accessible spot in the driveway. Here is the link to a video of it being moved. https://vimeo.com/142708885
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LCAC_Man
Posted 2015-10-17 6:59 AM (#3090 - in reply to #3089)
Subject: Re: The Dieselfication of Coach 1046


Extreme Veteran

100100100100
Location: Oceanside, CA
You'll be logging miles with it in no time!
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BigRabbitMan
Posted 2015-10-18 5:36 PM (#3091 - in reply to #1311)
Subject: Re: The Dieselfication of Coach 1046



Elite Veteran

500100100100
Location: Cottage Grove, OR
The first test miles have been logged!

All I can say is SWEET!, SWEET!, SWEET!!!!! It has good acceleration, shifts as smooth as butter and is very quiet inside. I don't have a video from inside as of yet so I cannot give you a sound level test, BUT, I can give you an 8:43 min video from the chase car of a portion of the initial test drive. The chase driver (Eric) and I were on speaker phone to each other so if you listen carefully you can hear my side of the conversation.

When it starts we are comparing speedometer readings and it appears that mine is reading about 3 mph faster than actual (his). That will be compared to a GPS at some point in the future. I am turning about 1850-1900 rpm at 65 mph. Just for Len, at about 1:11 min remaining I advise Eric that I am going to see if it makes black smoke. I floored it and it just blew gray and dust off the road. That does show that the engine is running efficiently. My acceleration rate was very good for a motor home!

Here is the link to the video, enjoy: https://vimeo.com/142810917
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LCAC_Man
Posted 2015-10-18 6:47 PM (#3092 - in reply to #3091)
Subject: Re: The Dieselfication of Coach 1046


Extreme Veteran

100100100100
Location: Oceanside, CA
Fantastic...gives me the motivation to get mine done as soon as possible!
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andy1canada
Posted 2015-10-18 9:11 PM (#3094 - in reply to #1311)
Subject: Re: The Dieselfication of Coach 1046


Veteran

100100
Location: Victoria, BC. Canada
Wow! Looks good - sounds good - goes like stink!

What more could a guy want?

Way to go Stephen, Eric and all those who helped out on this huge project.

Terry

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LCAC_Man
Posted 2015-10-19 6:51 AM (#3095 - in reply to #1311)
Subject: Re: The Dieselfication of Coach 1046


Extreme Veteran

100100100100
Location: Oceanside, CA
Stephen,
Have you tried any of the other Banks Power settings?
Also, I want to get some info about the fuel tank flange rings used on your tank in this picture:
http://www.fmcowners.com/mbbs22/photos/show-album.asp?albumid=77&ph...
Also, did your end up using these alignment tools?:
http://www.fmcowners.com/mbbs22/photos/show-album.asp?albumid=77&ph...


Edited by LCAC_Man 2015-10-19 6:57 AM
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BigRabbitMan
Posted 2015-10-19 9:19 AM (#3096 - in reply to #3095)
Subject: Re: The Dieselfication of Coach 1046



Elite Veteran

500100100100
Location: Cottage Grove, OR



Yes, I did use those alignment tools.  You can make a set from materials at the hardware store as Harry Day shows in this photo album:

http://fmcowners.com/mbbs22/photos/photo-thumbnails.asp?albumid=26&useralbum=47



I have not tried any of the other Banks settings.  I will try the economy mode later.  I primarily wanted the Speed Brake for control going downhill.  Uphills are always easy: just use a lower gear!  It is the downhills that get people into trouble.  Adding the engine controller and exhaust sensor added the ability to read the exhaust temp on the same screen.  That could have been done by a dedicated, separate sensor and gauge.

 The split ring that you see I had made by a metal fabrication company.  I took the upper ring to a metal cutting firm and they used it to make a pattern of the hole spacing.  I then gave them the inner and outer diameters and thickness that I wanted and they cut it out on a laser including the holes.  I used 1/8 thick material.  I then tapped the holes with #32 thread.  For the gasket, I purchased the silicon gasket material in a sheet online and then cut out the gasket as shown in my photo album.  When cutting out the fuel pickup from the tank go big and then trim to the size shown.

 

 

LCAC_Man - 2015-10-19 4:51 AM Stephen, Have you tried any of the other Banks Power settings? Also, I want to get some info about the fuel tank flange rings used on your tank in this picture: http://www.fmcowners.com/mbbs22/photos/show-album.asp?albumid=77&am... Also, did your end up using these alignment tools?: http://www.fmcowners.com/mbbs22/photos/show-album.asp?albumid=77&am...

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BigRabbitMan
Posted 2015-10-19 3:57 PM (#3097 - in reply to #1311)
Subject: Re: The Dieselfication of Coach 1046



Elite Veteran

500100100100
Location: Cottage Grove, OR
I did a good check of the speedometer reading vs my gps and the speedometer is in exact agreement with my gps. That means that all the gearing is within OEM specs and that all the driver information readings will be as accurate as GM made them (which is not totally accurate).
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BigRabbitMan
Posted 2015-10-19 5:19 PM (#3098 - in reply to #1311)
Subject: Re: The Dieselfication of Coach 1046



Elite Veteran

500100100100
Location: Cottage Grove, OR
Correction: I used nitrile material for the gasket.
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LCAC_Man
Posted 2015-10-20 4:22 PM (#3100 - in reply to #3096)
Subject: Re: The Dieselfication of Coach 1046


Extreme Veteran

100100100100
Location: Oceanside, CA
BigRabbitMan - 2015-10-19 7:19 AM

 The split ring that you see I had made by a metal fabrication company.  I took the upper ring to a metal cutting firm and they used it to make a pattern of the hole spacing.  I then gave them the inner and outer diameters and thickness that I wanted and they cut it out on a laser including the holes. 


Do you have the name of the shop that laser cut those rings? I'm thinking they may still have the files for them and could cut a set and ship them to me.
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BigRabbitMan
Posted 2015-10-21 12:53 AM (#3101 - in reply to #1311)
Subject: Re: The Dieselfication of Coach 1046



Elite Veteran

500100100100
Location: Cottage Grove, OR
I will check with them.
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LCAC_Man
Posted 2015-10-25 8:35 AM (#3104 - in reply to #1311)
Subject: Re: The Dieselfication of Coach 1046


Extreme Veteran

100100100100
Location: Oceanside, CA
Have you put together a return trip report? would be interested in mpg, temps, engine braking, speeds/shifting/rpms?
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BigRabbitMan
Posted 2015-10-25 11:48 PM (#3106 - in reply to #3104)
Subject: Re: The Dieselfication of Coach 1046



Elite Veteran

500100100100
Location: Cottage Grove, OR
 
 
LCAC_Man - 2015-10-25 6:35 AM Have you put together a return trip report? would be interested in mpg, temps, engine braking, speeds/shifting/rpms?

The trip went well and it was very rewarding to be back at the wheel of my coach after a five year hiatus.  Of course not all of that time was due to the work on the coach as we moved to Oregon from California and then bought another place that required a lot of rebuilding and then moved again! 

For this trip, I was pulling my '87 Subaru Brat loaded with my tools and a few extra things as a tow vehicle.  The Brat weighs 2600 lbs. plus stuff in the back.  The main effect of having a tow vehicle is on the grades, both up and down: more power needed to go up and more braking needed coming down. 

The engine performed as expected running smooth as silk and starts immediately.  The first thing I noticed is that the six speed transmission keeps the engine in its efficient power band (1600-2000 rpm) so smoothly the shifts are not noticed unless one is looking for them.  At 65 mph the engine is turning 1800 rpm which is just right as a small hill that would cause the engine to slow actually pulls the engine into a slightly higher torque point.  At 55 mph the engine is turning 1500 rpm which is the bottom of the usable torque band (1500-3200 rpm).  The wide torque band would come in useful with the current configuration.  Our earlier test runs over Pacheco Pass (1300 ft.) had shown us that pulling a grade at speed would overheat the engine as it will make more power and thus more heat than the cooling system could reject.  

Cruising on the flats at 65 mph the temp gauge reads 210 degrees which is what it also reads going down grades so I don't know what the actual temperature is in degrees.  Ostensibly it has a 180 degree thermostat.  I have a second sensor installed so at some point I will rig up a digital temperature gauge and see what it says at the various places on the OEM dash gauge.  As previously reported, the dash speedometer and my GPS agreed on the MPH so that makes the mileage traveled figures as correct as they will ever be and as correct as they were in the original vehicle. 

So on the flats and on short hills temperature is a non-issue as the installation handles the heat generated and all is well.  In the long term, I will need to increase the heat rejection capability for mountain driving and/or pulling a tow vehicle.
 
For this trip, to go up grades of more than a mile in length I simply geared down to increase the mechanical advantage between the engine and the ground.  This allowed the engine to work a little less which meant less heat was generated and it also increased heat rejection rate by increasing fan speed.  The amount of gear down varied by the steepness of the grade and its length.  It was at this point that the ability to easily manually shift the transmission came into its own.  The transmission has D, M, and 1 as the gearshift positions.  D is drive and it selects the gear the same as any other vehicle. 1 puts it into first gear and keeps it there.  M stands Manual and allows the driver to select the gear electronically with a momentary rocker switch.  When M is selected the DIC (Driver Information Center) switches to show the numbers from 1-6 and which one is selected.  I could then shift the transmission into the gear that I desired and it would stay there until I changed it or shifted back to D.  On gradual grades I would shift to 5 th gear to just add a few rpms and all was fine.  For steeper or longer hills I would take it down to 4th and at the extreme for one pass I moved it down to 2nd gear both going up and down.  That was the Siskiyou pass just north of the CA/OR border.  It is a 7-8 mile 6% grade going up and coming down.  I just dropped it down to 2nd gear and climbed the pass at about 3,000 rpm and 40 mph with the trucks and came down the other side the same way.  With that gear selected, I did not use my brakes at all coming down the grade.  Brakes should only be used for stopping, not for speed control.  By selecting the appropriate gear using the M mode, all the grades and were easily handled without any excess engine heating issues. Going up the grade the engine temperature was at the white mark to the right of 210 and only half way to the red spot on the gauge.  Coming down it was at the 210 mark.  For most of the trip the transmission temperature was right at 200 degrees with it being a little lower on the flats at night. 

The trip was made in three segments.  The first was from Gilroy to Dixon where I made a stop at our favorite produce stand.  At that point I checked the mileage and mpg.  I had traveled 125.6 miles and it had gotten 14.5 mpg to that point.  There were only a few hills and one low pass for that segment.  From there I turned North and into a strong headwind.  I took it out of 6 and put in into 5 which is 10% lower gear than 6th.  Rpms went up by a couple hundred to 1800 and the temp held steady just to the right of the magic 210 mark on the gauge.  For some periods I was able to slip stream a truck or two for awhile.  I then stopped in Redding, CA to stretch my legs and check over everything prior to the mountains.  At that point I had traveled 288.8 miles and had gotten a cumulative 14.1 mpg.  Not surprising with the head wind and some hills.  The third segment was from there to my house in Cottage Grove, OR.  When I arrived there I had traveled 583.0 miles and had gotten a cumulative 13.1 mpg with that stretch being mostly mountains with some flat sections thrown in.  That section has two passes at 3000 ft+/-, one 4300 ft pass and several more at 2000 ft.

When converting to a diesel, with its heavier weight, how the coach will handle is always a question.  Given the design with the engine and transmission to the rear of the rear axel it is a very important question as excessive weight can destroy the original handling characteristics as designed by FMC.  That factor was one of my major considerations in selecting the GM Duramax as the only engine I would put into my coach other than a gas engine.  I am pleased to report that I could not discern any change in handling relative to how it had handled prior to the conversion.  That was great news!!  After Eric had also driven it, I asked him how he would compare the handling of 1046 to the handling of his 440 powered coach.  He said that as far as he could discern, the coaches handled the same.  There was no "tail wagging the dog" handling issue.

In summary, I am very pleased with how the coach turned out as to how it performs and how it drives.  I do caution anyone reading this to understand the magnitude of such a project as this both in time and money.  Do not attempt to do this unless you have in excess of $20,000 to spend NOT counting any labor costs.  For 99% of you, the original 440 is the correct engine for your use of a FMC motor coach. 

Drive them and enjoy them.
   
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borrmann
Posted 2015-10-26 6:52 AM (#3107 - in reply to #3106)
Subject: Re: The Dieselfication of Coach 1046


Contributor

25
Location: Bluevale, Ontario
Congratulations Stephan and Eric, what an epic achievement. Hope to see you both at Red Oak in 2016. Frank
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LCAC_Man
Posted 2015-10-26 7:09 AM (#3108 - in reply to #1311)
Subject: Re: The Dieselfication of Coach 1046


Extreme Veteran

100100100100
Location: Oceanside, CA
Stephen,
I've owned two Duramax pickups, both ran 210dgs when fully warmed up, the main bypass thermostat doesn't fully open until 212dgs so that's a temp that you'll see alot, I also saw 225dg when towing, what I learned quickly was that watching the egt was more important, keeping it below 1300dg is the most important parameter.
Really glad to hear about the handling, I'm going to great lengths to lighten the load behind the rear wheels, so this makes me more comfortable.
Those MPG's are fantastic! Better than I'd have guessed, hopefully I can get close to those.
I'll be fabricating the passenger side motor mount today.
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hemi354az
Posted 2015-10-26 11:39 AM (#3109 - in reply to #3106)
Subject: Re: The Dieselfication of Coach 1046


Veteran

10010025
Location: Scottsdale, Aridzona
Thought fan speed was electric motor/computer controlled based on coolant temp (http://www.fmcowners.com/mbbs22/photos/show-album.asp?albumid=77&photoid=2937) not engine speed ("which meant less heat was generated and it also increased heat rejection rate by increasing fan speed."- below) ?

Did you start with a full tank of Fuel ?
Have you refilled with fuel since you got home to Cottage Grove?
How does the actual gallons used compare with the computer generated avg MPG for the 583.0 mile trip ?

All that work . . . and it drove all the way home without a glitch ! GOOD JOB !!!
Congratulations to you, and Eric, and your Diesel Conversion Gang.
Lou #120

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BigRabbitMan
Posted 2015-10-26 12:20 PM (#3110 - in reply to #3107)
Subject: Re: The Dieselfication of Coach 1046



Elite Veteran

500100100100
Location: Cottage Grove, OR


borrmann - 2015-10-26 4:52 AM Congratulations Stephan and Eric, what an epic achievement. Hope to see you both at Red Oak in 2016. Frank

 

Yes, I will be at Red Oak next June.  See you then!

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BigRabbitMan
Posted 2015-10-26 1:22 PM (#3111 - in reply to #3109)
Subject: Re: The Dieselfication of Coach 1046



Elite Veteran

500100100100
Location: Cottage Grove, OR
 

hemi354az - 2015-10-26 9:39 AM Thought fan speed was electric motor/computer controlled based on coolant temp (http://www.fmcowners.com/mbbs22/photos/show-album.asp?albumid=77&photoid=2937) not engine speed ("which meant less heat was generated and it also increased heat rejection rate by increasing fan speed."- below) ?

Did you start with a full tank of Fuel ?
Have you refilled with fuel since you got home to Cottage Grove?
How does the actual gallons used compare with the computer generated avg MPG for the 583.0 mile trip ?

All that work . . . and it drove all the way home without a glitch ! GOOD JOB !!!
Congratulations to you, and Eric, and your Diesel Conversion Gang.
Lou #120

The fan is a viscous clutch and not an electric motor.  The fan and clutch were OEM for the UFO chassis built by Workhorse which had a pusher setup like the FMC but with a GM 8.1L engine.  The computer for the 8.1 had the ability to control the fan speed.  I have a nephew that is building a stand alone controller for me, but it is not complete at this point in time so I traveled without the controller.  The default for the clutch is full on so not having the controller just meant that the fan clutch was fully engaged at all time.  The controller is going to have to be re-configured as the normal temps for the engine are higher than previously thought.  Heat rejection was one of my early concerns as the Workhorse fan has fewer blades and is slightly smaller than the Duramax fan.  That aspect will be getting some review over the winter.  For now, the coach is very usable and it will get used!

Yes, I started with a full tank of fuel.  I filled it to the top of the fill spout opening to the tank in Gilroy on a level pad.  To the best of my ability on a slightly slanted pad, I did the same here in Cottage Grove.  I then did a manual calculation and it came out very close, but slightly less (less than 0.1 mpg)  than the calculated mpg by the DIC.  It is close enough for me.  I will keep track over multiple trips and multiple fills to determine is there is any significant difference between the DIC and the manual calculations.  I also want to see what it does under different conditions such as level ground and not towing a vehicle.  I will do that with a trip to see my grandchildren up in WA in a few weeks.
 
I want to join Lou in thanking those that assisted with this project.  It would not have happened without their help.  The primary helpers were Eric Whedon, Larry Enoksen and my son, Mark Heinrichs.  Each of them challenged my thoughts on how something should be done.  Those challenges helped me to either find a better way of doing something or allowed me to confirm my thinking as to the original path.  The end result was the trouble free 583 mile trip home.  That is a good omen for my future trips!

 

 

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LCAC_Man
Posted 2015-10-29 4:09 PM (#3119 - in reply to #1311)
Subject: Re: The Dieselfication of Coach 1046


Extreme Veteran

100100100100
Location: Oceanside, CA
Stephen,
Were you able to use the Banks system to monitor inlet air temp and get a feel for how your water/air intercooler performed? I haven't committed to water/air or CAC yet.
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BigRabbitMan
Posted 2015-10-29 5:15 PM (#3120 - in reply to #1311)
Subject: Re: The Dieselfication of Coach 1046



Elite Veteran

500100100100
Location: Cottage Grove, OR
No I wasn't as the Banks system didn't push the data through the extended wires. I will be in touch with them for a solution at some point. Have house things to deal with at the moment.
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LCAC_Man
Posted 2015-10-30 7:08 AM (#3121 - in reply to #3120)
Subject: Re: The Dieselfication of Coach 1046


Extreme Veteran

100100100100
Location: Oceanside, CA
I posted some pic's of the fan I just received and the vendor starting here: http://www.fmcowners.com/mbbs22/photos/show-album.asp?albumid=127&p...
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