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Extreme Veteran
 
Location: Scottsdale, Aridzona | Not accepting Diesel engine/tranny change weight increase for a FMC 2900R . . . I am looking for a Mercedes M139 Engine . . . as summarized in this Article:
https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a27813840/mercedes-amg-m139-four-c...
Similar Torque as the 440 in my FMC now . . . at only 354 pounds wet weight ! To get better FUEL MILEAGE . . . ADD LIGHTNESS !
Seems the currently preferred FMC Diesel Tranny changes have at least 6 or more speeds (double overdrives) required for the narrower Diesel RPM operating range.
Perhaps Andy can help me find an Automatic Lock-up 18 speed (3 X 6 = 18) Transmission that will bring the stated RPM range of the M139 engine into my 4.63 to 1 Diff operating range.
Please let me know if any roll-overs or rear-ender wrecks for any Mercedes cars with this M139 engine occur in your area.
I am interested in buying the wreck for the M139 engine.
Shift, shift, SHIFT ON !
Lou #120
ps: Stephan, what happened to that fellow that put a LT Chevy V-8 gasoline engine and 460-LE (?) O-drive tranny in his FMC ? He was in the San Joaquin Valley I think.
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Expert
 
Location: Cottage Grove, OR | I stopped getting responses to my emails so I don’t know the current status of the coach you refer to. The owner was/is in his 90’s so that may be a factor. I may try to find out this summer when I am in California. |
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Elite Veteran
Location: Oceanside, CA | it is amazing what the newest direct injected / boosted engines can do. I drove a new camaro with the new turbo 4cyl and it was unbelievable...it would have put any "muscle care era" camaro to shame..
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Extreme Veteran
Location: Scottsdale, Aridzona | Double the fuel flow and double the airflow . . . doubles the horsepower.
Triple the fuel flow and triple the airflow . . . . . . . triples the horsepower.
Quadruple the fuel flow and quadruple the airflow . . . quadruples the horsepower.
This thermodramatic principle can continue until . . . . . . the engine EXPLODES !
That is the American Way ! If some is good . . . . . . . . . . . . then a WHOLE LOT IS BETTER !
Quintuple ON ! Lou #120
Edited by hemi354az 2019-06-09 10:03 AM
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Veteran
Location: Houston, Texas | Real Torque...comes from real engines.....Chevy 454 old school rules..
we had a 73 Monte Carlo SS that could Free Willy out of the water...….
Rico & Carmen
397
12 V Cummins & 6 Speed Allison |
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Elite Veteran
Location: Oceanside, CA | If I were ever to consider a gas swap for an FMC I'd use a chevy kodiak (c4500/5500) donor with the 8.1/allison combo. |
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Extreme Veteran
Location: Scottsdale, Aridzona | But, but, BUT . . . for those of you who love the smell and noise of Farm Implements before your breakfast . . .
Ma Mopar finally has paid off the proper Emissions people and offers their 3.0L (182 cubic inches) V-6 Eco-Diesel with 260 HP and 480 lb-ft Torque in a New and Improved Version for the Ram 1500 lb Pickup !
https://jalopnik.com/the-new-ram-1500-finally-gets-the-ecodiesel-and...
About a 10-15% increase over the stock FMC 440 Chrysler and certainly less weight and volume to slip easily into the rear engine bay, with some 5, 6, 7, or 8 speed (727 type) transmission.
Keep your eyes open for a roll over wreck to get the whole KABOOM (Compression Ignition !) Set-up. A MODERN DIESEL for your New and Improved 45 year old FMC Hi-way Cruiser.
Leave the other BIG INCH BEHEMOTHS to the Peterbuilt and Kenworth wanna-be's.
Clicity-Clack ON ! Lou #120 |
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Elite Veteran
Location: Oceanside, CA | Nissan Titan XD donor for one of these would be a cool swap: http://www.cumminshub.com/5.0l-cummins.html |
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Veteran
Location: Houston, Texas | did somebody changed the way of finding out or figuring out
the torque values on engines ? how can such a small
weed eater motor have this type of torque ? (I'm not an engineer)
But..... my understanding was/is the longer the stroke (rod length)
the more torque ? (everything else being equal)
Sorry..I only went by high school (the outside area)
Rico & Carmen
397
12 V & 6 Speed Allison
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Extreme Veteran
Location: Scottsdale, Aridzona | Hey Rico,
Can't really do Internal Combustion Engines (ICEngines) 101 here on the Nets.
Torque comes from the Cylinder Pressure forcing the piston DOWN with the "lever arm" being the crankshaft STROKE (center out to crankpin radius) . . . not "rod length".
Most IC Engines that you and I deal with will be Four Stroke Engines. Each Piston goes up and down TWICE for each "POWER MAKING EVENT". So we call it a FOUR STROKE . . . 2 ups and 2 downs.
Easy remember is . . .
SUCK (INTAKE, piston goes down, atmosphere forces air or air AND fuel, into expanding cylinder volume thru the open intake valve) . . .
SQUEEZE (COMPRESSION, piston goes up, all valves closed) . . .
BANG (POWER, ignition fires or diesel injector squirts fuel in, explosion forces piston back down) . . .
BLOW (EXHAUST, piston goes back up forcing hot gases out the open exhaust valve).
That, SUCK, SQUEEZE, BANG, BLOW, happens in each cylinder over and over and over again. Sir Harry Ricardo disliked 4 stroke engines because he said nothing good happens 3/4 ths of the time (SUCK, SQUEEZE, and BLOW).
That linear up and down motion of the piston gets changed to rotational motion by the crankshaft, which eventually gets to the tires and rotates them.
http://www.animatedengines.com/otto.html
IC Engine POWER is a direct function of how much air/fuel you can put thru it. For any engine. . . if you want more power . . . turn it faster . . . or make it bigger . . . or squeeze the air before you put it in there, and add more fuel to that squeezed air, or any combination of RPM, DISPLACEMENT, and/or ADDITIONAL AIR/FUEL. That is what supercharges (gear or belt driven, or exhaust gas driven by a turbine) do . . . put 3 pounds of air into a one pound sack. The air is the hard part. The fuel part is easier . . . bigger injectors or jets in the carb.
Small engines, like Formula 1, have very high RPM . . . and lots of small cylinders. HUGE ship engines (in 4 and 2 stroke type) turn VERY SLOW, but have 6 to 14 cylinders that have pistons three or more feet across and have nine feet or more stroke ! But they only turn 95 or so RPM . . . and are "OVERSPEED" at 100-102 RPM. -
https://www.google.com/search?q=wartsila-sulzer+super+ship&#...
Everything in an IC Engine is a compromise. Bore. Stroke. Rod length. Piston height. Piston pin location. Valve size. EVERYTHING.
Here is one of THOUSANDS of brief Articles that discuss Rod Length -
https://www.enginebuildermag.com/2016/08/understanding-rod-ratios/
All this IC Engine stuff was fingered out in the 1920s ! There is not much really NEW. Just subtle refinements. LOTS and LOTS of info and MISS-INFO on the Nets.
(There never was a 225 MPG carburetor that got bought and destroyed by the Oil Companies so they could continue to sell more and more gasoline.)
Some of what I tell you is TRUE !
Press ON ! Lou #120
You are Welcome and Encouraged to CALL if you want to know more from me.
Edited by hemi354az 2019-06-11 7:21 PM
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Veteran
Location: Bethune, SC | Another great write-up. I am sending it to my son so he will understand how an engine works.
To give you an idea of how wild and foolish I have been and continue to be, a friend and I hopped up a 4-dr Dodge Omni. It had a 2.5 liter four cylinder engine in it that put out well over 300 HP. It had 8" wide rims on the front, 225/50/15 tires and 5.5" on the back when we drag raced it. The turbo would have done a Mack truck proud. It had a large intercooler, multipoint fuel injection with additional injectors staged on the intake manifold and controlled by the "enhanced" computer that we had. The rear suspension was made solid by two adjusters that would be adjusted for street driving. Otherwise, the front end would start bouncing when power was applied. Every moving part was forged and coated with friction reducers.
Nobody would race us after our first two trips to the track. The track photographer would take pictures as the cars crossed the finish line, and no muscle cars, Vetts, or Ricers wanted to be photographed getting beaten by an 85 4-door Dodge Omni. We turned about 12.60 out of the box. A Washington bureaucrat on his way to Florida bought the car at a South Georgia drag strip for a princely sum. He offered us $900 to haul it to DC. That is not quite the end of the story, but probably enough.
The point is you could probably get an FMC to perform like the Omni, but it would take the cruise ship engine with 10 overdrives to do it.
Henry |
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Extreme Veteran
Location: Scottsdale, Aridzona | https://www.autoblog.com/2019/03/07/1985-dodge-omni-glh-ebay-auction...
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Veteran
Location: Bethune, SC | Another great write-up. I am sending it to my son so he will understand how an engine works. To give you an idea of how wild and foolish I have been and continue to be, a friend and I hopped up a 4-dr Dodge Omni. It had a 2.5 liter four cylinder engine in it that put out well over 300 HP. It had 8" wide rims on the front, 225/50/15 tires and 5.5" on the back when we drag raced it. The turbo would have done a Mack truck proud. It had a large intercooler, multipoint fuel injection with additional injectors staged on the intake manifold and controlled by the "enhanced" computer that we had. The rear suspension was made solid by two adjusters that would be adjusted for street driving. Otherwise, the front end would start bouncing when power was applied. Every moving part was forged and coated with friction reducers. Nobody would race us after our first two trips to the track. The track photographer would take pictures as the cars crossed the finish line, and no muscle cars, Vetts, or Ricers wanted to be photographed getting beaten by an 85 4-door Dodge Omni. We turned about 12.60 out of the box. A Washington bureaucrat on his way to Florida bought the car at a South Georgia drag strip for a princely sum. He offered us $900 to haul it to DC. That is not quite the end of the story, but probably enough. The point is you could probably get an FMC to perform like the Omni, but it would take the cruise ship engine with 10 overdrives to do it. Henry |
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Extreme Veteran
Location: Ignacio Colorado | GLH stands for goes like hell! Dodge 2.2L Turbo II intercooled. Worked for Chrysler back then. Fun cars.
Bill |
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Extreme Veteran
Location: Ignacio Colorado | Have an 89 Daytona Shelby with the 2.2turbo II in the yard. Won’t fix it because I don’t want the trouble it will get me in. Fun, fun.
Bill |
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Elite Veteran
Location: Oceanside, CA | I had an 88 shelby daytona as a daily driver for a few years(it was actually the last "new car" I've owned) ...really excellent car and I drove the snot out of that thing!
the engine/auto makers have really embraced using the things that work in modern diesel engines on the new IC gas engines...the new batch of multiple turbo 4cyl engines making over 300ftlbs and the return of "big blocks" coming out next year are evidence of that. The precision and speed of controlling direct injection will take these things to the next level, the LT4 V8 & LTG turbo 4cyl platform that GM has and the Ecoboost line of Ford engines are both amazing.. |
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Veteran
Location: Houston, Texas | I think my 93 Dodge d250 12 V Cummins could drag a few of those 3.0 v6,
Regardless of how many turbos they can stuff in there.
I know my 69 Chevelle Big Block that I used to own, could do
the same on regular pump gas =
Heck...I may even be able to drag 3 of those with one FMC and
still Be able to cruise at posted speed levels...
.........NO REPLACEMENT FOR DISPLACEMENT........
Rico & Carmen
397
12 V & 6 Speed Allison |
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Extreme Veteran
Location: Scottsdale, Aridzona | Sorry Rico . . . YOU LOSE !
1989-1998 5.9 12V Cummins Turbo Diesel I-6
160-215 HP @ 2500 RPM and 400-440 lb-ft Torque @1600 RPM . . . 359 CID at 1,100 lbs.
2020 3.0 12V Dodge Eco-Diesel V-6
260 HP @3600 RPM and 480 lb-ft Torque @1600 RPM . . . 189 CID at approx. 550 lbs.
The V-12 Merlin Engines I used to work on ran 120-140 In.Hg (60-70 PSI) Intake Manifold Pressure.
Your Chevelle Big Block ran O In.Hg (0 PSI) Intake Manifold Pressure.
Your 5.9 12V Cummins runs 36 In.Hg (18 PSI) MAX Intake Manifold Pressure.
I do not know what the Dodge Eco-Diesel Intake Manifold Pressure is.
Guess you skipped over the part about doubling Air Flow and Fuel Flow doubling HP, etc.
Air Race and Hydroplane Merlin Engines run eight+ times more air and fuel flow than a normally aspirated equivalent engine.
Press ON ! Lou #120
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Veteran
Location: Houston, Texas | Let me see if I understood correctly......
If I’m unable to produce enough torque to loosen the
Wheels 1 1/2 nuts with a socket and 1/2 drive
6”in long ratchet, I would need to open my mouth and
breathe faster and suck More air in, then I should be able to
develop more torque and loosen up the “Nuts” ? :=)
I been doing it all wrong then by using a long or longer
Piece of pipe to loosen them. 
I can only try to imagine a 3.0 turbo in a Kodiak 4500 truck
No replacement for displacement.....real torque moves me....
Rico & Carmen
397
12V Cummins & 6 Speed Allison |
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Regular
| So what about a TESLA Swap. In all honesty this may be the best upgrade for the FMC. The suspension seems prime for individual motors, and there is plenty of space for battery when the engine is pulled. Torque and HP on these wheel motors is pretty off the chain. |
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Expert
Location: Cottage Grove, OR | Larry E. Got a quote a couple of years of $50,000 to convert an FMC to electric. It would have one motor driving through the existing transmission. Would be using Tesla batteries in the rear and would have a range of 200+ miles. |
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Gas engine change for FMC ?
